icecat-52.3.0-gnu1 includes Google in search engines

ng0 wrote on 17 Sep 2017 14:40

Recipients:(address . bug-guix@gnu.org)

Message-ID:20170917124038.aheubmpxixzyx6ne@abyayala

Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?

I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.

There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
before this version.
-- 
ng0
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Mark H Weaver wrote on 18 Sep 2017 06:22

Recipients:(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87wp4wk54l.fsf@netris.org

Hi,

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

Toggle quote (8 lines)

> Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?

> I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)

> with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.

> There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present

> before this version.

Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to

use those search engines?

Mark

ng0 wrote on 18 Sep 2017 09:11

Recipients:(name . Mark H Weaver)(address . mhw@netris.org)

Message-ID:20170918071100.hm4z3qjmmrkwvxh2@abyayala

Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:

Toggle quote (17 lines)> Hi,
> 
> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> 
> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
> >
> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
> >
> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> > before this version.
> 
> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
> use those search engines?
> 
>        Mark

For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
makes changes not to default to Google. People rarely
change defaults, so we should give the option to use Google
but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

I keep my configs in git and just pull them every time I set
up a new system, so I wouldn't know if Icecat has always
included Google and the others.

Maybe my view on this problem (privacy issues) goes beyond our
guidelines?
-- 
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
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https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org

Ludovic Courtès wrote on 18 Sep 2017 10:08

Recipients:(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)

Message-ID:87tw00pgyb.fsf@gnu.org

Hello,

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> skribis:

Toggle quote (23 lines)> Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>> >
>> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
>> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>> >
>> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
>> > before this version.
>> 
>> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
>> use those search engines?
>> 
>>        Mark
>
> For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> makes changes not to default to Google. People rarely
> change defaults, so we should give the option to use Google
> but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

I sort-of agree with both of you. :-)

Using a centralized search engine, be it Google or DuckDuckGo or even

searx.me, is a threat to privacy. Of course the dominating position of

Google makes it worse than the others, but let’s not pretend the others

are white as snow.

Besides, this is a discussion to have with IceCat upstream IMO. There’s

nothing Guix-specific here. So I’d close this one as “wontfix”.

WDYT?

Ludo’.

ng0 wrote on 18 Sep 2017 11:06

Recipients:(name . Ludovic Courtès)(address . ludo@gnu.org)

Message-ID:20170918090609.6svvx7rjhtsunjsw@abyayala

Ludovic Courtès transcribed 1.3K bytes:

Toggle quote (42 lines)> Hello,
> 
> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> skribis:
> 
> > Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> >> 
> >> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
> >> >
> >> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> >> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
> >> >
> >> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> >> > before this version.
> >> 
> >> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
> >> use those search engines?
> >> 
> >>        Mark
> >
> > For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> > makes changes not to default to Google. People rarely
> > change defaults, so we should give the option to use Google
> > but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.
> 
> I sort-of agree with both of you.   :-)
> 
> Using a centralized search engine, be it Google or DuckDuckGo or even
> searx.me, is a threat to privacy.  Of course the dominating position of
> Google makes it worse than the others, but let’s not pretend the others
> are white as snow.
> 
> Besides, this is a discussion to have with IceCat upstream IMO.  There’s
> nothing Guix-specific here.  So I’d close this one as “wontfix”.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> Ludo’.
> 

I agree. I'll take this upstream soon.
-- 
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
GnuPG: https://krosos.org/dist/keys/
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org

Mark H Weaver wrote on 18 Sep 2017 19:12

Recipients:(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87bmm8hqxh.fsf@netris.org

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

Toggle quote (20 lines)> Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
>> 
>> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>> >
>> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
>> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>> >
>> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
>> > before this version.
>> 
>> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
>> use those search engines?
>> 
>>        Mark
>
> For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> makes changes not to default to Google.

Among the changes that GNU IceCat makes to Firefox ESR: it makes

DuckDuckGo the default search engine. Last I checked, that was indeed

the case for our IceCat package. Do you have reason to believe

otherwise?

Toggle quote (3 lines)

> People rarely change defaults, so we should give the option to use

> Google but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

Agreed, and I think that's exactly what IceCat does. Please let me know

if you think I'm mistaken about that.

Mark

ng0 wrote on 18 Sep 2017 19:25

Recipients:(name . Mark H Weaver)(address . mhw@netris.org)

Message-ID:20170918172518.pbivz5heuob2o2cg@abyayala

Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.1K bytes:

Toggle quote (27 lines)> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> 
> > Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> >> 
> >> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> >> 
> >> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
> >> >
> >> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> >> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
> >> >
> >> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> >> > before this version.
> >> 
> >> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
> >> use those search engines?
> >> 
> >>        Mark
> >
> > For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> > makes changes not to default to Google.
> 
> Among the changes that GNU IceCat makes to Firefox ESR: it makes
> DuckDuckGo the default search engine.  Last I checked, that was indeed
> the case for our IceCat package.  Do you have reason to believe
> otherwise?

With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)

and guix package -i icecat (for the recent release) and no pre-existing

configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.

Toggle quote (9 lines)

> > People rarely change defaults, so we should give the option to use

> > Google but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

> Agreed, and I think that's exactly what IceCat does. Please let me know

> if you think I'm mistaken about that.

> Mark

-- 
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
GnuPG: https://krosos.org/dist/keys/
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org

Ludovic Courtès wrote on 18 Sep 2017 22:10

control message for bug #28479

Recipients:(address . control@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87o9q7hioe.fsf@gnu.org

tags 28479 wontfix

close 28479

Mark H Weaver wrote on 18 Sep 2017 23:18

Re: bug#28479: icecat-52.3.0-gnu1 includes Google in search engines

Recipients:(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87y3pbhfjo.fsf@netris.org

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

Toggle quote (32 lines)> Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.1K bytes:
>> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
>> >> 
>> >> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>> >> >
>> >> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
>> >> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>> >> >
>> >> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
>> >> > before this version.
>> >> 
>> >> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
>> >> use those search engines?
>> >> 
>> >>        Mark
>> >
>> > For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
>> > makes changes not to default to Google.
>> 
>> Among the changes that GNU IceCat makes to Firefox ESR: it makes
>> DuckDuckGo the default search engine.  Last I checked, that was indeed
>> the case for our IceCat package.  Do you have reason to believe
>> otherwise?
>
> With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
> and guix package -i icecat  (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
> configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.

On my GuixSD system, I just tried the following:

* Quit IceCat, and wait for the process to really be gone.

* Move ~/.mozilla to ~/.mozilla-OLD.

* Restart IceCat.

and I found that DuckDuckGo was the default search engine.

I'm not sure what you did, but I suspect that you had a ~/.mozilla

directory in place where Google was configured to be the default search

engine.

Mark

Mark H Weaver wrote on 29 Sep 2017 05:52

Recipients:(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:878tgyf9gd.fsf@netris.org

Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:

Toggle quote (18 lines)> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>
>> With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
>> and guix package -i icecat  (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
>> configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.
>
> On my GuixSD system, I just tried the following:
>
> * Quit IceCat, and wait for the process to really be gone.
> * Move ~/.mozilla to ~/.mozilla-OLD.
> * Restart IceCat.
>
> and I found that DuckDuckGo was the default search engine.
>
> I'm not sure what you did, but I suspect that you had a ~/.mozilla
> directory in place where Google was configured to be the default search
> engine.

Any response to this, ng0? Do you still believe that Google is the

default search engine for our IceCat package?

Mark

ng0 wrote on 29 Sep 2017 11:57

Recipients:(name . Mark H Weaver)(address . mhw@netris.org)

Message-ID:20170929095707.4cgsd6l4rqijhx4y@abyayala

Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.8K bytes:

Toggle quote (26 lines)> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:
> 
> > ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> >
> >> With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
> >> and guix package -i icecat  (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
> >> configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.
> >
> > On my GuixSD system, I just tried the following:
> >
> > * Quit IceCat, and wait for the process to really be gone.
> > * Move ~/.mozilla to ~/.mozilla-OLD.
> > * Restart IceCat.
> >
> > and I found that DuckDuckGo was the default search engine.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you did, but I suspect that you had a ~/.mozilla
> > directory in place where Google was configured to be the default search
> > engine.
> 
> Any response to this, ng0?  Do you still believe that Google is the
> default search engine for our IceCat package?
> 
>       Mark
> 

I was busy and haven't forgotten about this. So:
What I reported was on a new install from scratch.
When I simply rename my .mozilla and start icecat so that a new
profile is created, I get DuckDuckGo.
Let's just close this, I have no idea what happened on the previous
install.
-- 
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
GnuPG: https://krosos.org/dist/keys/
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://krosos.org

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