icecat-52.3.0-gnu1 includes Google in search engines

DoneSubmitted by ng0.
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3 participants
  • Ludovic Courtès
  • Mark H Weaver
  • ng0
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unassigned
Severity
normal
N
(address . bug-guix@gnu.org)
20170917124038.aheubmpxixzyx6ne@abyayala
Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?

I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.

There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
before this version.
--
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org
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M
M
Mark H Weaver wrote on 18 Sep 2017 06:22
(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)
87wp4wk54l.fsf@netris.org
Hi,

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

Toggle quote (8 lines)
> Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>
> I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>
> There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> before this version.

Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
use those search engines?

Mark
N
(name . Mark H Weaver)(address . mhw@netris.org)
20170918071100.hm4z3qjmmrkwvxh2@abyayala
Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
Toggle quote (17 lines)
> Hi,
>
> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>
> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
> >
> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
> >
> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> > before this version.
>
> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
> use those search engines?
>
> Mark

For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
makes changes not to default to Google. People rarely
change defaults, so we should give the option to use Google
but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

I keep my configs in git and just pull them every time I set
up a new system, so I wouldn't know if Icecat has always
included Google and the others.

Maybe my view on this problem (privacy issues) goes beyond our
guidelines?
--
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org
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L
L
Ludovic Courtès wrote on 18 Sep 2017 10:08
(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)
87tw00pgyb.fsf@gnu.org
Hello,

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> skribis:

Toggle quote (23 lines)
> Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
>> Hi,
>>
>> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>>
>> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>> >
>> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
>> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>> >
>> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
>> > before this version.
>>
>> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
>> use those search engines?
>>
>> Mark
>
> For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> makes changes not to default to Google. People rarely
> change defaults, so we should give the option to use Google
> but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

I sort-of agree with both of you. :-)

Using a centralized search engine, be it Google or DuckDuckGo or even
searx.me, is a threat to privacy. Of course the dominating position of
Google makes it worse than the others, but let’s not pretend the others
are white as snow.

Besides, this is a discussion to have with IceCat upstream IMO. There’s
nothing Guix-specific here. So I’d close this one as “wontfix”.

WDYT?

Ludo’.
N
(name . Ludovic Courtès)(address . ludo@gnu.org)
20170918090609.6svvx7rjhtsunjsw@abyayala
Ludovic Courtès transcribed 1.3K bytes:
Toggle quote (42 lines)
> Hello,
>
> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> skribis:
>
> > Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> >>
> >> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
> >> >
> >> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> >> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
> >> >
> >> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> >> > before this version.
> >>
> >> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
> >> use those search engines?
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> > For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> > makes changes not to default to Google. People rarely
> > change defaults, so we should give the option to use Google
> > but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.
>
> I sort-of agree with both of you. :-)
>
> Using a centralized search engine, be it Google or DuckDuckGo or even
> searx.me, is a threat to privacy. Of course the dominating position of
> Google makes it worse than the others, but let’s not pretend the others
> are white as snow.
>
> Besides, this is a discussion to have with IceCat upstream IMO. There’s
> nothing Guix-specific here. So I’d close this one as “wontfix”.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Ludo’.
>

I agree. I'll take this upstream soon.
--
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org
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M
M
Mark H Weaver wrote on 18 Sep 2017 19:12
(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)
87bmm8hqxh.fsf@netris.org
ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

Toggle quote (20 lines)
> Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
>>
>> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>>
>> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>> >
>> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
>> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>> >
>> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
>> > before this version.
>>
>> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
>> use those search engines?
>>
>> Mark
>
> For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> makes changes not to default to Google.

Among the changes that GNU IceCat makes to Firefox ESR: it makes
DuckDuckGo the default search engine. Last I checked, that was indeed
the case for our IceCat package. Do you have reason to believe
otherwise?

Toggle quote (3 lines)
> People rarely change defaults, so we should give the option to use
> Google but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.

Agreed, and I think that's exactly what IceCat does. Please let me know
if you think I'm mistaken about that.

Mark
N
(name . Mark H Weaver)(address . mhw@netris.org)
20170918172518.pbivz5heuob2o2cg@abyayala
Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.1K bytes:
Toggle quote (27 lines)
> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>
> > Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> >>
> >> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> >>
> >> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
> >> >
> >> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
> >> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
> >> >
> >> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
> >> > before this version.
> >>
> >> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
> >> use those search engines?
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> > For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
> > makes changes not to default to Google.
>
> Among the changes that GNU IceCat makes to Firefox ESR: it makes
> DuckDuckGo the default search engine. Last I checked, that was indeed
> the case for our IceCat package. Do you have reason to believe
> otherwise?

With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
and guix package -i icecat (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.

Toggle quote (9 lines)
> > People rarely change defaults, so we should give the option to use
> > Google but default to for example searx.me or duckduckgo.com.
>
> Agreed, and I think that's exactly what IceCat does. Please let me know
> if you think I'm mistaken about that.
>
> Mark
>

--
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://www.infotropique.orghttps://www.krosos.org
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L
L
Ludovic Courtès wrote on 18 Sep 2017 22:10
control message for bug #28479
(address . control@debbugs.gnu.org)
87o9q7hioe.fsf@gnu.org
tags 28479 wontfix
close 28479
M
M
Mark H Weaver wrote on 18 Sep 2017 23:18
Re: bug#28479: icecat-52.3.0-gnu1 includes Google in search engines
(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)
87y3pbhfjo.fsf@netris.org
ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

Toggle quote (32 lines)
> Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.1K bytes:
>> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>>
>> > Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.4K bytes:
>> >>
>> >> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > Is this an upstream bug? Should we patch to remove Google?
>> >> >
>> >> > I've just compared a completely new system (and Icecat profile)
>> >> > with my default profile, both include Google in search engines.
>> >> >
>> >> > There's also Bing and Yahoo, I'm not sure if all 3 were present
>> >> > before this version.
>> >>
>> >> Why would it be considered a bug to give users the convenient option to
>> >> use those search engines?
>> >>
>> >> Mark
>> >
>> > For example the branch of firefox which Parabola distributes
>> > makes changes not to default to Google.
>>
>> Among the changes that GNU IceCat makes to Firefox ESR: it makes
>> DuckDuckGo the default search engine. Last I checked, that was indeed
>> the case for our IceCat package. Do you have reason to believe
>> otherwise?
>
> With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
> and guix package -i icecat (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
> configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.

On my GuixSD system, I just tried the following:

* Quit IceCat, and wait for the process to really be gone.
* Move ~/.mozilla to ~/.mozilla-OLD.
* Restart IceCat.

and I found that DuckDuckGo was the default search engine.

I'm not sure what you did, but I suspect that you had a ~/.mozilla
directory in place where Google was configured to be the default search
engine.

Mark
M
M
Mark H Weaver wrote on 29 Sep 2017 05:52
(name . ng0)(address . ng0@infotropique.org)(address . 28479@debbugs.gnu.org)
878tgyf9gd.fsf@netris.org
Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:

Toggle quote (18 lines)
> ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
>
>> With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
>> and guix package -i icecat (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
>> configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.
>
> On my GuixSD system, I just tried the following:
>
> * Quit IceCat, and wait for the process to really be gone.
> * Move ~/.mozilla to ~/.mozilla-OLD.
> * Restart IceCat.
>
> and I found that DuckDuckGo was the default search engine.
>
> I'm not sure what you did, but I suspect that you had a ~/.mozilla
> directory in place where Google was configured to be the default search
> engine.

Any response to this, ng0? Do you still believe that Google is the
default search engine for our IceCat package?

Mark
N
(name . Mark H Weaver)(address . mhw@netris.org)
20170929095707.4cgsd6l4rqijhx4y@abyayala
Mark H Weaver transcribed 0.8K bytes:
Toggle quote (26 lines)
> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:
>
> > ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:
> >
> >> With a completely new system (had to set this up for testing Mate)
> >> and guix package -i icecat (for the recent release) and no pre-existing
> >> configuration, the default was Google, not DuckDuckGo.
> >
> > On my GuixSD system, I just tried the following:
> >
> > * Quit IceCat, and wait for the process to really be gone.
> > * Move ~/.mozilla to ~/.mozilla-OLD.
> > * Restart IceCat.
> >
> > and I found that DuckDuckGo was the default search engine.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you did, but I suspect that you had a ~/.mozilla
> > directory in place where Google was configured to be the default search
> > engine.
>
> Any response to this, ng0? Do you still believe that Google is the
> default search engine for our IceCat package?
>
> Mark
>

I was busy and haven't forgotten about this. So:
What I reported was on a new install from scratch.
When I simply rename my .mozilla and start icecat so that a new
profile is created, I get DuckDuckGo.
Let's just close this, I have no idea what happened on the previous
install.
--
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
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