[PATCH] Start enabling substitutes from bayfront.

Done

Details

3 participants

Ludovic Courtès
Christopher Baines
Mathieu Othacehe

Owner: unassigned

Submitted by: Christopher Baines

Severity: normal

Christopher Baines wrote on 15 May 2021 12:08

Recipients:(address . guix-patches@gnu.org)

Message-ID:20210515100822.11784-1-mail@cbaines.net

In addition to substitutes from ci.guix.gnu.org.  There are more changes that
can be made in the future, but these changes seem like a good start.

* etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub: New file.
* Makefile.am (dist_pkgdata_DATA): Add it.
* config-daemon.ac (guix_substitute_urls): Add https://bayfront.guix.gnu.org.
* guix/scripts/substitute.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add
http://bayfront.guix.gnu.org.
* guix/store.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add bayfront.guix.gnu.org.
---
 Makefile.am                               | 3 ++-
 config-daemon.ac                          | 2 +-
 etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub | 6 ++++++
 guix/scripts/substitute.scm               | 3 ++-
 guix/store.scm                            | 3 ++-
 5 files changed, 13 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub

Toggle diff (69 lines)diff --git a/Makefile.am b/Makefile.am
index 4cbef5a6e6..bad17e59fd 100644
--- a/Makefile.am
+++ b/Makefile.am
@@ -584,7 +584,8 @@ check-system: $(GOBJECTS)
 dist_pkgdata_DATA =				\
   etc/substitutes/berlin.guix.gnu.org.pub	\
   etc/substitutes/ci.guix.gnu.org.pub		\
-  etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub
+  etc/substitutes/ci.guix.info.pub		\
+  etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub
 
 # Bash completion file.
 dist_bashcompletion_DATA = etc/completion/bash/guix	\
diff --git a/config-daemon.ac b/config-daemon.ac
index 85caee269b..ee2ffbff42 100644
--- a/config-daemon.ac
+++ b/config-daemon.ac
@@ -117,7 +117,7 @@ if test "x$guix_build_daemon" = "xyes"; then
 
   dnl Determine the appropriate default list of substitute URLs (GnuTLS
   dnl is required so we can default to 'https'.)
-  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org"
+  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org https://bayfront.guix.gnu.org"
 
   AC_MSG_CHECKING([for default substitute URLs])
   AC_MSG_RESULT([$guix_substitute_urls])
diff --git a/etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub b/etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..0092301e5a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/etc/substitutes/bayfront.guix.gnu.org.pub
@@ -0,0 +1,6 @@
+(public-key 
+ (ecc 
+  (curve Ed25519)
+  (q #7D602902D3A2DBB83F8A0FB98602A754C5493B0B778C8D1DD4E0F41DE14DE34F#)
+  )
+ )
diff --git a/guix/scripts/substitute.scm b/guix/scripts/substitute.scm
index 8e4eae00b3..2fa2b1e219 100755
--- a/guix/scripts/substitute.scm
+++ b/guix/scripts/substitute.scm
@@ -638,7 +638,8 @@ found."
     (#f
      ;; This can only happen when this script is not invoked by the
      ;; daemon.
-     '("http://ci.guix.gnu.org"))))
+     '("http://ci.guix.gnu.org"
+       "http://bayfront.guix.gnu.org"))))
 
 ;; In order to prevent using large number of discovered local substitute
 ;; servers, limit the local substitute urls list size.
diff --git a/guix/store.scm b/guix/store.scm
index 9d706ae590..8fca37283f 100644
--- a/guix/store.scm
+++ b/guix/store.scm
@@ -783,7 +783,8 @@ encoding conversion errors."
   (map (if (false-if-exception (resolve-interface '(gnutls)))
            (cut string-append "https://" <>)
            (cut string-append "http://" <>))
-       '("ci.guix.gnu.org")))
+       '("ci.guix.gnu.org"
+         "bayfront.guix.gnu.org")))
 
 (define (current-user-name)
   "Return the name of the calling user."
-- 
2.30.1

Mathieu Othacehe wrote on 15 May 2021 13:01

Recipients:(name . Christopher Baines)(address . mail@cbaines.net)(address . 48435@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:874kf4jm6k.fsf@gnu.org

Hello Chris,

Toggle quote (2 lines)

> + guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.orghttps://bayfront.guix.gnu.org"

What is the rationale behind adding a new substitution server? I feel

like having two substitute servers will make things more complex in term

of maintenance.

Having both servers compute the same set of substitutes is also not

great from an energetic and resource saving point of view.

Thanks,

Mathieu

Christopher Baines wrote on 15 May 2021 14:20

Recipients:(name . Mathieu Othacehe)(address . othacehe@gnu.org)(address . 48435@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87sg2ochni.fsf@cbaines.net

Mathieu Othacehe <othacehe@gnu.org> writes:

Toggle quote (11 lines)> Hello Chris,
>
>> +  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org https://bayfront.guix.gnu.org"
>
> What is the rationale behind adding a new substitution server? I feel
> like having two substitute servers will make things more complex in term
> of maintenance.
>
> Having both servers compute the same set of substitutes is also not
> great from an energetic and resource saving point of view.

Hey,

I should have probably written a cover letter, but this patch is me

starting to try and work out the changes involved in getting substitutes

from bayfront to general Guix users, but the discussion has been

happening in this thread [1].

1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-05/msg00241.html

Bayfront has been around for a while, and has been serving substitutes,

although I'm not sure it's provided much value to users in that time. I

hope that can change with switching to using the Guix Build Coordinator

though, that happened around a month ago, and it's slowly building

things and catching up.

I guess there's a greater need to maintain it if starts getting used by

more users, so I do think the maintenance involved is something to

consider.

Personally, I see the arguments for having multiple substitute servers

getting stronger over time. Multiple independent substitute servers

would provide more reliability than a single source, as well as enabling

things like K of N trust in substitutes [2].

2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-06/msg00179.html

In terms of energy and resources, currently there are 5 machines in use,

most of which were mostly idle before being put to use building things

for substitutes. While having them build things does use more power than

having them idle, I think the value provided, even if that's providing

exactly the same bytes as ci.guix.gnu.org, is worth the cost, for the

reasons I give above.

Thanks,

Chris

Christopher Baines wrote on 18 May 2021 21:45

Re: Bringing substitutes from the Guix Build Coordinator to users

Recipients:

Message-ID:87lf8bbzbl.fsf@cbaines.net

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

Toggle quote (3 lines)

> Is there still a path to bring some of these benefits to users, and if

> so, what things need doing?

It's been a few weeks now, so to summarise, I think only one path

emerged, and that is to get substitutes from bayfront to users.

Bayfront was already running the Guix Build Coordinator (although only

for the last month), and it's now caught up to the point where I'm

seeing similar or better substitute availability percentages for

x86_64-linux (and powerpc64le-linux) when compared to

ci.guix.gnu.org. It's also building i686-linux and aarch64-linux things,

but they're still catching up.

Obviously just having the substitutes doesn't magically get them to

users, so I've started looking in to the changes to start making that

happen. Adding the signing key and changing the defaults in a few places

seems like a good step forward [1].

1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435

I want to push on with this within the next couple of weeks, mostly so I

can shift focus to Outreachy and the security related tooling work, but

also because I still think this will be a good step forward in terms of

substitute availability for users. It's been over a year now since

implementation started, so it would be good to actually make a positive

difference.

There's a few issues still on my mind. Even though the substitute

availability percentages are good when compared to ci.guix.gnu.org, as

bayfront has much less compute power connected, it might not keep up as

well when big sets of changes are merged. I think that's just an

argument for using the build coordinator on berlin and the connected

machines though.

The other thing in comparison to ci.guix.gnu.org is that bayfront only

has ~4TB of storage rather than ~37TB, and given that currently none of

the generated nars are deleted, that will need thinking about in a few

months to avoid running out of space. I've had some plans around this

for a while [1], but they still require implementing.

1: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-02/msg00104.html

Apart from merging the changes in [1], I guess a blog post might be

useful. Have I missed anything?

Chris

Ludovic Courtès wrote on 18 May 2021 23:24

Recipients:(name . Christopher Baines)(address . mail@cbaines.net)

Message-ID:87wnrv68h7.fsf@gnu.org

Hello!

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:

Toggle quote (5 lines)

> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

>> Is there still a path to bring some of these benefits to users, and if

>> so, what things need doing?

[...]

Toggle quote (14 lines)> Obviously just having the substitutes doesn't magically get them to
> users, so I've started looking in to the changes to start making that
> happen. Adding the signing key and changing the defaults in a few places
> seems like a good step forward [1].
>
> 1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435
>
> I want to push on with this within the next couple of weeks, mostly so I
> can shift focus to Outreachy and the security related tooling work, but
> also because I still think this will be a good step forward in terms of
> substitute availability for users. It's been over a year now since
> implementation started, so it would be good to actually make a positive
> difference.

I’m fine with distributing an extra signing key alongside that of

ci.guix.gnu.org.

I’m unsure about having two substitute URLs by default since it adds a

bit of overhead, though that overhead is only upon cache misses (I have

that setup on my laptop actually).

It’s also a one-way change: people are likely to keep the defaults

“forever”. So we can’t just “experiment” and change our mind later.

That means we should at least have a DNS entry that’s not tied to a

particular machine, like ci2.guix.gnu.org or whatever.

WDYT?

Now, what would be nice is to have a second build farm with the

K-out-of-N policy you mention in mind.

Toggle quote (7 lines)

> There's a few issues still on my mind. Even though the substitute

> availability percentages are good when compared to ci.guix.gnu.org, as

> bayfront has much less compute power connected, it might not keep up as

> well when big sets of changes are merged. I think that's just an

> argument for using the build coordinator on berlin and the connected

> machines though.

As much as I’d have preferred a single solution in this area, fueling

competition between the Coordinator and Cuirass and their access to

official infrastructure doesn’t seem like a viable path to me.

I think the primary value in having a second build farm would be

reproducibility and doing away with the single point of failure.

Overall substitute coverage probably wouldn’t change much.

I agree with Mathieu that maintaining it has a cost, but maybe we can

try.

I realize I’m asking questions rather than providing answers, which may

be because I don’t see a clear path ahead. :-)

Thanks!

Ludo’.

Christopher Baines wrote on 19 May 2021 00:29

Recipients:(name . Ludovic Courtès)(address . ludo@gnu.org)

Message-ID:87im3fbrq7.fsf@cbaines.net

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

Toggle quote (28 lines)> Hello!
>
> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:
>
>> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:
>>
>>> Is there still a path to bring some of these benefits to users, and if
>>> so, what things need doing?
>
> [...]
>
>> Obviously just having the substitutes doesn't magically get them to
>> users, so I've started looking in to the changes to start making that
>> happen. Adding the signing key and changing the defaults in a few places
>> seems like a good step forward [1].
>>
>> 1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435
>>
>> I want to push on with this within the next couple of weeks, mostly so I
>> can shift focus to Outreachy and the security related tooling work, but
>> also because I still think this will be a good step forward in terms of
>> substitute availability for users. It's been over a year now since
>> implementation started, so it would be good to actually make a positive
>> difference.
>
> I’m fine with distributing an extra signing key alongside that of
> ci.guix.gnu.org.

Great.

Toggle quote (4 lines)

> I’m unsure about having two substitute URLs by default since it adds a

> bit of overhead, though that overhead is only upon cache misses (I have

> that setup on my laptop actually).

All of this work has been built on the assumption that it's possible to

do better in providing substitutes, and anecdotally from the data I've

seen over the last year, that should be possible, even with the limited

hardware (compared to ci.guix.gnu.org) connected to bayfront.

So yes, that's a valid concern, but if all the addition of bayfront does

is make users wait a little longer because of cache misses, it's a sign

that the whole endeavour is not working out.

Toggle quote (5 lines)

> It’s also a one-way change: people are likely to keep the defaults

> “forever”. So we can’t just “experiment” and change our mind later.

> That means we should at least have a DNS entry that’s not tied to a

> particular machine, like ci2.guix.gnu.org or whatever.

That sounds sensible. On the specific name, given this is just about
substitutes, and at least in my opinion has nothing to do with
continuous integration, maybe picking just another word would avoid
thinking too much, it could be bordeaux, or hippo, or anything
really. As you say, stability and not being tied to a particular machine
is the important thing.

Mathieu Othacehe wrote on 19 May 2021 08:54

Recipients:(name . Christopher Baines)(address . mail@cbaines.net)

Message-ID:87eee3tdrh.fsf@gnu.org

Hey Chris,

Toggle quote (7 lines)

> That sounds sensible. On the specific name, given this is just about

> substitutes, and at least in my opinion has nothing to do with

> continuous integration, maybe picking just another word would avoid

> thinking too much, it could be bordeaux, or hippo, or anything

> really. As you say, stability and not being tied to a particular machine

> is the important thing.

The substitutes coverage is one indicator to take into account but there

are many others. For instance, the evaluation speed, the failed

evaluation count, the average evaluation builds completion time, the

availability of the connected build machines between other things.

Deploying a solution that builds substitutes is fine, but as soon as it

is deployed and accessible to all Guix users, the system administrators

will have to monitor it and maintain it in the long run.

Having two heterogeneous build infrastructures on two sets of machines,

providing different metrics will make the update and maintenance of

those machines harder.

I hear your point about K-out-of-N policy and it also makes sense to

me. However, we should maybe consider doing it using two similar

infrastructures.

Thanks,

Mathieu

Christopher Baines wrote on 19 May 2021 09:57

Recipients:(name . Mathieu Othacehe)(address . othacehe@gnu.org)

Message-ID:87fsyjb1ff.fsf@cbaines.net

Mathieu Othacehe <othacehe@gnu.org> writes:

Toggle quote (14 lines)> Hey Chris,
>
>> That sounds sensible. On the specific name, given this is just about
>> substitutes, and at least in my opinion has nothing to do with
>> continuous integration, maybe picking just another word would avoid
>> thinking too much, it could be bordeaux, or hippo, or anything
>> really. As you say, stability and not being tied to a particular machine
>> is the important thing.
>
> The substitutes coverage is one indicator to take into account but there
> are many others. For instance, the evaluation speed, the failed
> evaluation count, the average evaluation builds completion time, the
> availability of the connected build machines between other things.

Indeed, and I'm aware that the Guix Data Service, which performs a

similar function to the evaluations in Cuirass, is much slower.

Toggle quote (12 lines)> Deploying a solution that builds substitutes is fine, but as soon as it
> is deployed and accessible to all Guix users, the system administrators
> will have to monitor it and maintain it in the long run.
>
> Having two heterogeneous build infrastructures on two sets of machines,
> providing different metrics will make the update and maintenance of
> those machines harder.
>
> I hear your point about K-out-of-N policy and it also makes sense to
> me. However, we should maybe consider doing it using two similar
> infrastructures.

Indeed. The reality though is that two different approaches have been in
development now for a little over a year, and this is a reflection of
that.

Christopher Baines wrote on 7 Jun 2021 13:07

[PATCH v2] Start enabling substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.

Recipients:(address . 48435@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:20210607110736.23894-1-mail@cbaines.net

In addition to substitutes from ci.guix.gnu.org.  There are more changes that
can be made in the future, but these changes seem like a good start.

* config-daemon.ac (guix_substitute_urls): Add https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
* guix/scripts/substitute.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add
http://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
* guix/store.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
---
 config-daemon.ac            | 2 +-
 guix/scripts/substitute.scm | 3 ++-
 guix/store.scm              | 3 ++-
 3 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

Toggle diff (43 lines)diff --git a/config-daemon.ac b/config-daemon.ac
index 85caee269b..5ddc740600 100644
--- a/config-daemon.ac
+++ b/config-daemon.ac
@@ -117,7 +117,7 @@ if test "x$guix_build_daemon" = "xyes"; then
 
   dnl Determine the appropriate default list of substitute URLs (GnuTLS
   dnl is required so we can default to 'https'.)
-  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org"
+  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org"
 
   AC_MSG_CHECKING([for default substitute URLs])
   AC_MSG_RESULT([$guix_substitute_urls])
diff --git a/guix/scripts/substitute.scm b/guix/scripts/substitute.scm
index 44448ff3e9..3ea1c73e10 100755
--- a/guix/scripts/substitute.scm
+++ b/guix/scripts/substitute.scm
@@ -643,7 +643,8 @@ found."
     (#f
      ;; This can only happen when this script is not invoked by the
      ;; daemon.
-     '("http://ci.guix.gnu.org"))))
+     '("http://ci.guix.gnu.org"
+       "http://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org"))))
 
 ;; In order to prevent using large number of discovered local substitute
 ;; servers, limit the local substitute urls list size.
diff --git a/guix/store.scm b/guix/store.scm
index cf5d5eeccc..eaf422b615 100644
--- a/guix/store.scm
+++ b/guix/store.scm
@@ -775,7 +775,8 @@ encoding conversion errors."
   (map (if (false-if-exception (resolve-interface '(gnutls)))
            (cut string-append "https://" <>)
            (cut string-append "http://" <>))
-       '("ci.guix.gnu.org")))
+       '("ci.guix.gnu.org"
+         "bordeaux.guix.gnu.org")))
 
 (define (current-user-name)
   "Return the name of the calling user."
-- 
2.31.1

Christopher Baines wrote on 7 Jun 2021 16:53

Re: Bringing substitutes from the Guix Build Coordinator to users

Recipients:(address . guix-devel@gnu.org)(address . 48435@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87k0n5u3os.fsf@cbaines.net

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

Toggle quote (8 lines)

> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

>> Is there still a path to bring some of these benefits to users, and if

>> so, what things need doing?

> It's been a few weeks now, so to summarise, I think only one path

> emerged, and that is to get substitutes from bayfront to users.

More weeks have past, it's taking me longer to get things sorted out

that I'd like, but things are still moving forward.

Toggle quote (7 lines)

> Bayfront was already running the Guix Build Coordinator (although only

> for the last month), and it's now caught up to the point where I'm

> seeing similar or better substitute availability percentages for

> x86_64-linux (and powerpc64le-linux) when compared to

> ci.guix.gnu.org. It's also building i686-linux and aarch64-linux things,

> but they're still catching up.

Substitute availability for x86_64-linux and i686-linux should be

roughly comparable to ci.guix.gnu.org. powerpc64le-linux substitute

availability is OK, and aarch64-linux might even be doing better than

ci.guix.gnu.org somehow.

Other things like armhf-linux and i586-gnu are still very much works in

progress.

Toggle quote (7 lines)

> Obviously just having the substitutes doesn't magically get them to

> users, so I've started looking in to the changes to start making that

> happen. Adding the signing key and changing the defaults in a few places

> seems like a good step forward [1].

> 1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435

I've gone ahead and put the key in to the Guix git repository [1] and

sent an updated patch for changing various bits of configuration [2].

1: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/?id=26499816a973b3aab9aaf8e13b909d0bde4e2dd5

2: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435#8

I think the patch still needs a bit more work, mostly to update the

docs. I'll try to work out what needs tweaking in the docs and send a v3

ASAP.

In terms of what to initially change, I'm still not sure if there's

something that needs updating that I'm currently missing, or something

that I'm updating that can be done later.

Toggle quote (3 lines)

> Apart from merging the changes in [1], I guess a blog post might be

> useful. Have I missed anything?

I'll start another thread on guix-devel to solicit feedback about

substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org, I'm not sure what specifically

about, but peoples observations might be helpful when writing a blog

post about this. I'll also try to start drafting a blog post.

What else needs doing to actually get these substitutes to users?

Thanks,

Chris

Christopher Baines wrote on 8 Jun 2021 14:14

[PATCH v3] Start enabling substitutes from bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.

Recipients:(address . 48435@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:20210608121411.4819-1-mail@cbaines.net

In addition to substitutes from ci.guix.gnu.org.  There are more changes that
can be made in the future, but these changes seem like a good start.

* config-daemon.ac (guix_substitute_urls): Add https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
* guix/scripts/substitute.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add
http://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
* guix/store.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
* doc/guix.texi: Adjust accordingly.
* doc/contributing.texi: Adjust accordingly.
---
 config-daemon.ac            |   2 +-
 doc/contributing.texi       |   8 +-
 doc/guix.texi               | 142 +++++++++++++++++++-----------------
 guix/scripts/substitute.scm |   3 +-
 guix/store.scm              |   3 +-
 5 files changed, 86 insertions(+), 72 deletions(-)

Toggle diff (376 lines)diff --git a/config-daemon.ac b/config-daemon.ac
index 85caee269b..5ddc740600 100644
--- a/config-daemon.ac
+++ b/config-daemon.ac
@@ -117,7 +117,7 @@ if test "x$guix_build_daemon" = "xyes"; then
 
   dnl Determine the appropriate default list of substitute URLs (GnuTLS
   dnl is required so we can default to 'https'.)
-  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org"
+  guix_substitute_urls="https://ci.guix.gnu.org https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org"
 
   AC_MSG_CHECKING([for default substitute URLs])
   AC_MSG_RESULT([$guix_substitute_urls])
diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi
index d67e632520..1086bb9fd4 100644
--- a/doc/contributing.texi
+++ b/doc/contributing.texi
@@ -376,12 +376,12 @@ Once your package builds correctly, please send us a patch
 (@pxref{Submitting Patches}).  Well, if you need help, we will be happy to
 help you too.  Once the patch is committed in the Guix repository, the
 new package automatically gets built on the supported platforms by
-@url{@value{SUBSTITUTE-URL}, our continuous integration system}.
+@url{https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}, our continuous integration system}.
 
 @cindex substituter
 Users can obtain the new package definition simply by running
 @command{guix pull} (@pxref{Invoking guix pull}).  When
-@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is done building the package, installing the
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} is done building the package, installing the
 package automatically downloads binaries from there
 (@pxref{Substitutes}).  The only place where human intervention is
 needed is to review and apply the patch.
@@ -1107,7 +1107,7 @@ changes).  This branch is intended to be merged in @code{master} every
 until late in its development process.
 @end table
 
-All these branches are @uref{@value{SUBSTITUTE-URL},
+All these branches are @uref{https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1},
 tracked by our build farm} and merged into @code{master} once
 everything has been successfully built.  This allows us to fix issues
 before they hit users, and to reduce the window during which pre-built
@@ -1141,7 +1141,7 @@ as timestamps or randomly-generated output in the build result.
 
 Another option is to use @command{guix challenge} (@pxref{Invoking guix
 challenge}).  You may run it once the package has been committed and
-built by @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} to check whether it obtains the same
+built by @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} to check whether it obtains the same
 result as you did.  Better yet: Find another machine that can build it
 and run @command{guix publish}.  Since the remote build machine is
 likely different from yours, this can catch non-determinism issues
diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi
index 59b4ac11b4..a917d4092f 100644
--- a/doc/guix.texi
+++ b/doc/guix.texi
@@ -17,8 +17,9 @@
 @set BASE-URL https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix
 
 @c The official substitute server used by default.
-@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER ci.guix.gnu.org
-@set SUBSTITUTE-URL https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}
+@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1 ci.guix.gnu.org
+@set SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2 bordeaux.guix.gnu.org
+@set SUBSTITUTE-URLS https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1} https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}
 
 @copying
 Copyright @copyright{} 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 Ludovic Courtès@*
@@ -229,7 +230,7 @@ Package Management
 
 Substitutes
 
-* Official Substitute Server::  One particular source of substitutes.
+* Official Substitute Servers::  One particular source of substitutes.
 * Substitute Server Authorization::  How to enable or disable substitutes.
 * Getting Substitutes from Other Servers::  Substitute diversity.
 * Substitute Authentication::   How Guix verifies substitutes.
@@ -780,12 +781,15 @@ Info search path).
 
 @item
 @cindex substitutes, authorization thereof
-To use substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} or one of its mirrors
-(@pxref{Substitutes}), authorize them:
+To use substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}},
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}} or a mirror (@pxref{Substitutes}),
+authorize them:
 
 @example
 # guix archive --authorize < \
-     ~root/.config/guix/current/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}.pub
+     ~root/.config/guix/current/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}.pub
+# guix archive --authorize < \
+     ~root/.config/guix/current/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}.pub
 @end example
 
 @quotation Note
@@ -1547,7 +1551,7 @@ remote procedure call (@pxref{The Store}).
 @item --substitute-urls=@var{urls}
 Consider @var{urls} the default whitespace-separated list of substitute
 source URLs.  When this option is omitted,
-@indicateurl{https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is used.
+@indicateurl{@value{SUBSTITUTE-URLS}} is used.
 
 This means that substitutes may be downloaded from @var{urls}, as long
 as they are signed by a trusted signature (@pxref{Substitutes}).
@@ -3685,7 +3689,7 @@ pre-built package binaries, but source tarballs, for instance, which
 also result from derivation builds, can be available as substitutes.
 
 @menu
-* Official Substitute Server::  One particular source of substitutes.
+* Official Substitute Servers::  One particular source of substitutes.
 * Substitute Server Authorization::  How to enable or disable substitutes.
 * Getting Substitutes from Other Servers::  Substitute diversity.
 * Substitute Authentication::   How Guix verifies substitutes.
@@ -3694,14 +3698,15 @@ also result from derivation builds, can be available as substitutes.
 * On Trusting Binaries::        How can you trust that binary blob?
 @end menu
 
-@node Official Substitute Server
-@subsection Official Substitute Server
+@node Official Substitute Servers
+@subsection Official Substitute Servers
 
 @cindex build farm
-The @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} server is a front-end to an official build farm
-that builds packages from Guix continuously for some
-architectures, and makes them available as substitutes.  This is the
-default source of substitutes; it can be overridden by passing the
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} and
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}} are both front-ends to official build
+farms that build packages from Guix continuously for some architectures,
+and make them available as substitutes.  These are the default source of
+substitutes; which can be overridden by passing the
 @option{--substitute-urls} option either to @command{guix-daemon}
 (@pxref{daemon-substitute-urls,, @code{guix-daemon --substitute-urls}})
 or to client tools such as @command{guix package}
@@ -3714,7 +3719,7 @@ using HTTP makes all communications visible to an eavesdropper, who
 could use the information gathered to determine, for instance, whether
 your system has unpatched security vulnerabilities.
 
-Substitutes from the official build farm are enabled by default when
+Substitutes from the official build farms are enabled by default when
 using Guix System (@pxref{GNU Distribution}).  However,
 they are disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution,
 unless you have explicitly enabled them via one of the recommended
@@ -3730,27 +3735,28 @@ other substitute server.
 @cindex substitutes, authorization thereof
 @cindex access control list (ACL), for substitutes
 @cindex ACL (access control list), for substitutes
-To allow Guix to download substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} or a
-mirror thereof, you
-must add its public key to the access control list (ACL) of archive
+To allow Guix to download substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}}, @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}} or a mirror, you
+must add the releavnt public key to the access control list (ACL) of archive
 imports, using the @command{guix archive} command (@pxref{Invoking guix
-archive}).  Doing so implies that you trust @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} to not
+archive}).  Doing so implies that you trust the substitute server to not
 be compromised and to serve genuine substitutes.
 
 @quotation Note
 If you are using Guix System, you can skip this section: Guix System
-authorizes substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} by default.
+authorizes substitutes from @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} and
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}} by default.
 @end quotation
 
-The public key for @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is installed along with Guix, in
-@code{@var{prefix}/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}.pub}, where @var{prefix} is
-the installation prefix of Guix.  If you installed Guix from source,
-make sure you checked the GPG signature of
+The public keys for each of the project maintained substitute servers
+are installed along with Guix, in @code{@var{prefix}/share/guix/}, where
+@var{prefix} is the installation prefix of Guix.  If you installed Guix
+from source, make sure you checked the GPG signature of
 @file{guix-@value{VERSION}.tar.gz}, which contains this public key file.
 Then, you can run something like this:
 
 @example
-# guix archive --authorize < @var{prefix}/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}.pub
+# guix archive --authorize < @var{prefix}/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}.pub
+# guix archive --authorize < @var{prefix}/share/guix/@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}.pub
 @end example
 
 Once this is in place, the output of a command like @code{guix build}
@@ -3782,8 +3788,8 @@ $ guix build emacs --dry-run
 @noindent
 The text changed from ``The following derivations would be built'' to
 ``112.3 MB would be downloaded''.  This indicates that substitutes from
-@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} are usable and will be downloaded, when
-possible, for future builds.
+the configured substitute servers are usable and will be downloaded,
+when possible, for future builds.
 
 @cindex substitutes, how to disable
 The substitute mechanism can be disabled globally by running
@@ -3817,8 +3823,9 @@ its configuration and add the URLs and substitute keys that you want
 
 As an example, suppose you want to fetch substitutes from
 @code{guix.example.org} and to authorize the signing key of that server,
-in addition to the default @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}}.  The
-resulting operating system configuration will look something like:
+in addition to the default @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} and
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}}.  The resulting operating system
+configuration will look something like:
 
 @lisp
 (operating-system
@@ -3862,7 +3869,7 @@ line and list the URLs of interest (@pxref{daemon-substitute-urls,
 @code{guix-daemon --substitute-urls}}):
 
 @example
-@dots{} --substitute-urls='https://guix.example.org https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}'
+@dots{} --substitute-urls='https://guix.example.org @value{SUBSTITUTE-URLS}'
 @end example
 
 @item
@@ -3885,10 +3892,12 @@ Again this assumes @file{key.pub} contains the public key that
 @end enumerate
 
 Now you're all set!  Substitutes will be preferably taken from
-@code{https://guix.example.org}, using @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}}
-as a fallback.  Of course you can list as many substitute servers as you
-like, with the caveat that substitute lookup can be slowed down if too
-many servers need to be contacted.
+@code{https://guix.example.org}, using
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} then
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-2}} as fallback options.  Of course you
+can list as many substitute servers as you like, with the caveat that
+substitute lookup can be slowed down if too many servers need to be
+contacted.
 
 Note that there are also situations where one may want to add the URL of
 a substitute server @emph{without} authorizing its key.
@@ -3976,12 +3985,12 @@ by a server.
 Today, each individual's control over their own computing is at the
 mercy of institutions, corporations, and groups with enough power and
 determination to subvert the computing infrastructure and exploit its
-weaknesses.  While using @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} substitutes can be
-convenient, we encourage users to also build on their own, or even run
-their own build farm, such that @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} is less of an
-interesting target.  One way to help is by publishing the software you
-build using @command{guix publish} so that others have one more choice
-of server to download substitutes from (@pxref{Invoking guix publish}).
+weaknesses.  While using substitutes can be convenient, we encourage
+users to also build on their own, or even run their own build farm, such
+that the project run substitute servers are less of an interesting
+target.  One way to help is by publishing the software you build using
+@command{guix publish} so that others have one more choice of server to
+download substitutes from (@pxref{Invoking guix publish}).
 
 Guix has the foundations to maximize build reproducibility
 (@pxref{Features}).  In most cases, independent builds of a given
@@ -4945,11 +4954,11 @@ Read a single-item archive as served by substitute servers
 low-level operation needed in only very narrow use cases; see below.
 
 For example, the following command extracts the substitute for Emacs
-served by @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} to @file{/tmp/emacs}:
+served by @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} to @file{/tmp/emacs}:
 
 @example
 $ wget -O - \
-  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/gzip/@dots{}-emacs-24.5 \
+  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/nar/gzip/@dots{}-emacs-24.5 \
   | gunzip | guix archive -x /tmp/emacs
 @end example
 
@@ -4971,7 +4980,7 @@ this example:
 
 @example
 $ wget -O - \
-  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/lzip/@dots{}-emacs-26.3 \
+  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/nar/lzip/@dots{}-emacs-26.3 \
   | lzip -d | guix archive -t
 @end example
 
@@ -10905,7 +10914,7 @@ but you are actually on an @code{x86_64} machine:
 
 @example
 $ guix build --log-file gdb -s aarch64-linux
-https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/log/@dots{}-gdb-7.10
+https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/log/@dots{}-gdb-7.10
 @end example
 
 You can freely access a huge library of build logs!
@@ -12558,7 +12567,7 @@ When @command{guix publish} runs, it spawns an HTTP server which allows
 anyone with network access to obtain substitutes from it.  This means
 that any machine running Guix can also act as if it were a build farm,
 since the HTTP interface is compatible with Cuirass, the software behind
-the @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} build farm.
+the @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} build farm.
 
 For security, each substitute is signed, allowing recipients to check
 their authenticity and integrity (@pxref{Substitutes}).  Because
@@ -12847,12 +12856,12 @@ any given store item.
 The command output looks like this:
 
 @smallexample
-$ guix challenge --substitute-urls="https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER} https://guix.example.org"
-updating list of substitutes from 'https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}'... 100.0%
+$ guix challenge --substitute-urls="https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1} https://guix.example.org"
+updating list of substitutes from 'https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}'... 100.0%
 updating list of substitutes from 'https://guix.example.org'... 100.0%
 /gnu/store/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d contents differ:
   local hash: 0725l22r5jnzazaacncwsvp9kgf42266ayyp814v7djxs7nk963q
-  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d: 0725l22r5jnzazaacncwsvp9kgf42266ayyp814v7djxs7nk963q
+  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/nar/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d: 0725l22r5jnzazaacncwsvp9kgf42266ayyp814v7djxs7nk963q
   https://guix.example.org/nar/@dots{}-openssl-1.0.2d: 1zy4fmaaqcnjrzzajkdn3f5gmjk754b43qkq47llbyak9z0qjyim
   differing files:
     /lib/libcrypto.so.1.1
@@ -12860,14 +12869,14 @@ updating list of substitutes from 'https://guix.example.org'... 100.0%
 
 /gnu/store/@dots{}-git-2.5.0 contents differ:
   local hash: 00p3bmryhjxrhpn2gxs2fy0a15lnip05l97205pgbk5ra395hyha
-  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0: 069nb85bv4d4a6slrwjdy8v1cn4cwspm3kdbmyb81d6zckj3nq9f
+  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0: 069nb85bv4d4a6slrwjdy8v1cn4cwspm3kdbmyb81d6zckj3nq9f
   https://guix.example.org/nar/@dots{}-git-2.5.0: 0mdqa9w1p6cmli6976v4wi0sw9r4p5prkj7lzfd1877wk11c9c73
   differing file:
     /libexec/git-core/git-fsck
 
 /gnu/store/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1 contents differ:
   local hash: 0k4v3m9z1zp8xzzizb7d8kjj72f9172xv078sq4wl73vnq9ig3ax
-  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1: 0k4v3m9z1zp8xzzizb7d8kjj72f9172xv078sq4wl73vnq9ig3ax
+  https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/nar/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1: 0k4v3m9z1zp8xzzizb7d8kjj72f9172xv078sq4wl73vnq9ig3ax
   https://guix.example.org/nar/@dots{}-pius-2.1.1: 1cy25x1a4fzq5rk0pmvc8xhwyffnqz95h2bpvqsz2mpvlbccy0gs
   differing file:
     /share/man/man1/pius.1.gz
@@ -12889,7 +12898,7 @@ the servers obtained a result different from the local build.
 
 @cindex non-determinism, in package builds
 As an example, @code{guix.example.org} always gets a different answer.
-Conversely, @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} agrees with local builds, except in the
+Conversely, @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} agrees with local builds, except in the
 case of Git.  This might indicate that the build process of Git is
 non-deterministic, meaning that its output varies as a function of
 various things that Guix does not fully control, in spite of building
@@ -12905,7 +12914,7 @@ to run:
 @example
 guix challenge git \
   --diff=diffoscope \
-  --substitute-urls="https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER} https://guix.example.org"
+  --substitute-urls="https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1} https://guix.example.org"
 @end example
 
 This automatically invokes @command{diffoscope}, which displays detailed
@@ -12915,14 +12924,14 @@ Alternatively, we can do something along these lines (@pxref{Invoking guix
 archive}):
 
 @example
-$ wget -q -O - https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}/nar/lzip/@dots{}-git-2.5.0 \
+$ wget -q -O - https://@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}/nar/lzip/@dots{}-git-2.5.0 \
    | lzip -d | guix archive -x /tmp/git
 $ diff -ur --no-dereference /gnu/store/@dots{}-git.2.5.0 /tmp/git
 @end example
 
 This command shows the difference between the files resulting from the
 local build, and the files resulting from the build on
-@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} (@pxref{Overview, Comparing and Merging Files,,
+@code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} (@pxref{Overview, Comparing and Merging Files,,
 diffutils, Comparing and Merging Files}).  The @command{diff} command
 works great for text files.  When binary files differ, a better option
 is @uref{https://diffoscope.org/, Diffoscope}, a tool that helps
@@ -12937,7 +12946,7 @@ In the meantime, @command{guix challenge} is one tool to help address
 the problem.
 
 If you are writing packages for Guix, you are encouraged to check
-whether @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER}} and other substitute servers obtain the
+whether @code{@value{SUBSTITUTE-SERVER-1}} and other substitute servers obtain the
 same build result as you did with:
 
 @example
@@ -13218,14 +13227,14 @@ on @var{a} and @var{a} has no substitutes, only @var{a} is listed, even though
 @var{b} usually lacks substitutes as well.  The result looks like this:
 
 @example
-$ guix weather --substitute-urls=@value{SUBSTITUTE-URL} -c 10
+$ guix weather --substitute-urls=@value{SUBSTITUTE-URLS} -c 10
 computing 8,983 package derivations for x86_64-linux...
-looking for 9,3

This message was truncated. Download the full message here.

Christopher Baines wrote on 18 Jun 2021 13:06

Recipients:(address . 48435-done@debbugs.gnu.org)

Message-ID:87wnqr8mag.fsf@cbaines.net

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> writes:

Toggle quote (10 lines)> In addition to substitutes from ci.guix.gnu.org.  There are more changes that
> can be made in the future, but these changes seem like a good start.
>
> * config-daemon.ac (guix_substitute_urls): Add https://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
> * guix/scripts/substitute.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add
> http://bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
> * guix/store.scm (%default-substitute-urls): Add bordeaux.guix.gnu.org.
> * doc/guix.texi: Adjust accordingly.
> * doc/contributing.texi: Adjust accordingly.

Pushed as 4985a4272497bf9ba87a2190353d915da9b55906. I'll update the guix

package shortly.

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