Too many services depend on ‘networking’

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2 participants
  • Efraim Flashner
  • Ludovic Courtès
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Ludovic Courtès
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L
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Ludovic Courtès wrote on 2 Oct 2023 14:24
(address . bug-guix@gnu.org)
87cyxxjjou.fsf@inria.fr
I believe too many services depend on ‘networking’ for no good reason.
There’s a good discussion of the problem at:


For example, bitlbee, ntpd, hurd-vm, and avahi-daemon all depend on
‘networking’.

Is it always justified? For example, avahi-daemon unconditionally
listens on 0.0.0.0 and [::], so there’s no need to depend on
‘networking’.

Toggle snippet (5 lines)
$ sudo netstat -tupla |grep avahi
udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:mdns 0.0.0.0:* 650/avahi-daemon: r
udp6 0 0 [::]:mdns [::]:* 650/avahi-daemon: r

In other cases, such as bitlbee, it’s not as obvious because users can
specify different addresses to listen to, and those might depend on
‘networking’ to set up the corresponding interfaces.

Thoughts? Should we do an audit of these?

Ludo’.
E
E
Efraim Flashner wrote on 5 Oct 2023 09:12
Re: bug#66306: Too many services depend on ‘networking’
(name . Ludovic Courtès)(address . ludo@gnu.org)(address . 66306@debbugs.gnu.org)
ZR5h58e0Hx2Jh-Tj@3900XT
On Mon, Oct 02, 2023 at 02:24:49PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
Toggle quote (5 lines)
> I believe too many services depend on ‘networking’ for no good reason.
> There’s a good discussion of the problem at:
>
> https://systemd.io/NETWORK_ONLINE/

This exactly! How much 'network' counts as 'good enough' to start the
next services?

Toggle quote (19 lines)
> For example, bitlbee, ntpd, hurd-vm, and avahi-daemon all depend on
> ‘networking’.
>
> Is it always justified? For example, avahi-daemon unconditionally
> listens on 0.0.0.0 and [::], so there’s no need to depend on
> ‘networking’.
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> $ sudo netstat -tupla |grep avahi
> udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:mdns 0.0.0.0:* 650/avahi-daemon: r
> udp6 0 0 [::]:mdns [::]:* 650/avahi-daemon: r
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> In other cases, such as bitlbee, it’s not as obvious because users can
> specify different addresses to listen to, and those might depend on
> ‘networking’ to set up the corresponding interfaces.
>
> Thoughts? Should we do an audit of these?

Probably should do an audit. For bitlbee, I guess the question is how
does it respond to changes in networking? If it comes up when only
loopback is up will it need to be restarted once an actual network shows
up?

For ntpd, I've had trouble with openntpd coming up while only loopback
was active and then I'd have to restart it for it to get the initial big
jump when starting.


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