Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade

DoneSubmitted by bo0od.
Details
5 participants
  • bo0od
  • Bone Baboon
  • Leo Prikler
  • Ludovic Courtès
  • Christopher Baines
Owner
unassigned
Severity
normal
B
(address . bug-guix@gnu.org)
d6318446-4b47-e68d-0ea6-e0755dd52e2b@riseup.net
Hi There,
The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not friendly to type nor to memorize, Current commands:(i dunno if i missed more)
guix pullguix upgradesudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm

There is no relation can be drawn from using these commands:
- pull: Is actually the opposite of push which is a git command and it make sense in git atmosphere/usage.
- upgrade: This is the only good one as this is very common term used within distros or actually most of the operating systems generally.
- reconfigure /etc/config.scm: hmm...
There are many ways we can improve this by using different better terms which can be easily memorized and even linked e.g: (These are just examples, If there are any better terms you can come with sure why not)
- pull -> update or refresh- upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade- reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or system-upgrade
----
OR There is another approach some distros taking which is using shortcuts to only letters e.g
pull -> p or -pupgrade -> u or -ureconfigure -> re or -re
as a one world for memory "pure" (any other letters can be used as well)
ThX!
C
C
Christopher Baines wrote on 23 Apr 16:15 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)
87pmylgk8e.fsf@cbaines.net
bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:
Toggle quote (16 lines)> Hi There,>> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not> friendly to type nor to memorize, Current commands:(i dunno if i> missed more)>> guix pull> guix upgrade> sudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm>>> There is no relation can be drawn from using these commands:>> - pull: Is actually the opposite of push which is a git command and it> make sense in git atmosphere/usage.
guix pull usually does a git pull under the hood and then builds guixfrom that updated repository.
I don't get what you mean when you say pull is actually the opposite ofpush? That's true in the sense of the words, but how does that relate toGuix?
Toggle quote (12 lines)> - upgrade: This is the only good one as this is very common term used> within distros or actually most of the operating systems generally.>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm: hmm...>> There are many ways we can improve this by using different better> terms which can be easily memorized and even linked e.g: (These are> just examples, If there are any better terms you can come with sure> why not)>> - pull -> update or refresh
I think update is OK, although I think pull is OK too. refresh isalready taken.
Toggle quote (4 lines)> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or> system-upgrade
You can "downgrade" (switch to using an older Guix/software) byreconfiguring, so I wouldn't like to see that operation referred to asan upgrade (as it's not always).
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B
(name . Christopher Baines)(address . mail@cbaines.net)
11bff206-c709-e633-67ac-390bb65ffd03@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> I don't get what you mean when you say pull is actually the opposite of
> push? That's true in the sense of the words, but how does that relate to > Guix?
git pull , git push -> both are making sense
guix pull, but no guix push -> doesnt make sense as there is no relation between pull and other used commands. (thus i suggested to use known linked-terms like update,upgrade...etc)
> You can "downgrade" (switch to using an older Guix/software) by > reconfiguring, so I wouldn't like to see that operation referred to as > an upgrade (as it's not always)
I see, for example it can be made as upgrade command to always read configurations which are only intended for upgrading the system and if you want to use downgrade then it will read configurations only intended for downgrading the system. (either by using the same config.scm or each command point to separated config.scm like upgrade.scm and downgrade.scm...)
by this can run system-upgrade , system-downgrade or dist-upgrade/downgrade..etc
Maybe there are better solutions like better terms or technical solutions someone can come up with to make things better than the current situation.


Christopher Baines:
Toggle quote (49 lines)> > bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:> >> Hi There,>>>> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not>> friendly to type nor to memorize, Current commands:(i dunno if i>> missed more)>>>> guix pull>> guix upgrade>> sudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm>>>>>> There is no relation can be drawn from using these commands:>>>> - pull: Is actually the opposite of push which is a git command and it>> make sense in git atmosphere/usage.> > guix pull usually does a git pull under the hood and then builds guix> from that updated repository.> > I don't get what you mean when you say pull is actually the opposite of> push? That's true in the sense of the words, but how does that relate to> Guix?> >> - upgrade: This is the only good one as this is very common term used>> within distros or actually most of the operating systems generally.>>>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm: hmm...>>>> There are many ways we can improve this by using different better>> terms which can be easily memorized and even linked e.g: (These are>> just examples, If there are any better terms you can come with sure>> why not)>>>> - pull -> update or refresh> > I think update is OK, although I think pull is OK too. refresh is> already taken.> >> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or>> system-upgrade> > You can "downgrade" (switch to using an older Guix/software) by> reconfiguring, so I wouldn't like to see that operation referred to as> an upgrade (as it's not always).>
B
B
Bone Baboon wrote on 23 Apr 17:16 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)
878s592fqf.fsf@disroot.org
bo0od writes:
Toggle quote (3 lines)> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not> friendly to type nor to memorize
The name of package management commands seems like it would largely bepersonal preference.
Each person using Guix could customize the commands to their ownpreferences using Bash aliases or an equivalent for the shell they areusing. For Bash refer to the Aliases section of it's infodocumentation.
Toggle quote (5 lines)> - pull -> update or refresh> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or> system-upgrade
For command names there are many package managers that you can look tofor inspiration. Here are some examples:
* Gentoo - emerge* OpenBSD - pkg * Void - xbps* Alpine - apk* Debian - apt* Arch - pacam or paru* Fedora - dnf
Toggle quote (7 lines)> OR There is another approach some distros taking which is using> shortcuts to only letters e.g>> pull -> p or -p> upgrade -> u or -u> reconfigure -> re or -re
This could also be done with shell aliases.
B
(name . Bone Baboon)(address . bone.baboon@disroot.org)
a2878671-95f8-edc7-9a82-fb134e69d114@riseup.net
Not really personal, Its about when there are new users these commands looks horrible.
You can call it personal when im saying use this X instead B while X and B has the same bad approach or both are good. This is called personal e.g:
use upgrade instead of distro-upgrade = yeah very much is something not really benefiting/different and personal.
but pull or update , reconfigure or system-upgrade...etc this is not anymore personal as i have already explained in my reasoning above.
Bone Baboon:
Toggle quote (37 lines)> bo0od writes:>> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not>> friendly to type nor to memorize> > The name of package management commands seems like it would largely be> personal preference.> > Each person using Guix could customize the commands to their own> preferences using Bash aliases or an equivalent for the shell they are> using. For Bash refer to the Aliases section of it's info> documentation.> >> - pull -> update or refresh>> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or>> system-upgrade> > For command names there are many package managers that you can look to> for inspiration. Here are some examples:> > * Gentoo - emerge> * OpenBSD - pkg> * Void - xbps> * Alpine - apk> * Debian - apt> * Arch - pacam or paru> * Fedora - dnf> >> OR There is another approach some distros taking which is using>> shortcuts to only letters e.g>>>> pull -> p or -p>> upgrade -> u or -u>> reconfigure -> re or -re> > This could also be done with shell aliases.>
L
L
Leo Prikler wrote on 23 Apr 20:50 +0200
(address . 47971@debbugs.gnu.org)
a040cb73ad8e5e1455f1335513ff32c217ea1b9a.camel@student.tugraz.at
Am Freitag, den 23.04.2021, 16:23 +0000 schrieb bo0od:
Toggle quote (3 lines)> Not really personal, Its about when there are new users these> commands > looks horrible.
Sorry for informing you, but your sense for aesthetics is a verypersonal thing. If we really want to talk about UX, much more would begained by having a translatable GUI than through questionable commandrenamings.
Toggle quote (12 lines)> You can call it personal when im saying use this X instead B while X> and > B has the same bad approach or both are good. This is called personal> e.g:> > use upgrade instead of distro-upgrade = yeah very much is something> not > really benefiting/different and personal.> > but pull or update , reconfigure or system-upgrade...etc this is not > anymore personal as i have already explained in my reasoning above.
- guix pull: You "pull" a fresh set of package descriptions. Note,that you can't "push" package descriptions *yet*.- guix upgrade: You "upgrade" a given user profile.- guix system reconfigure: You "reconfigure" your "system" according tothe specifications made in some file. Note, that this is notinherently an upgrade -- it is perfectly fine only to change someservices, to add new ones, or to do all of those three at once.
Of course, there may come times, when you will have to explain to yourless tech-savvy family members or friends, who you've helped installGuix, why upgrading all of your packages is such a tedious operation,that involves this funny command line thing. I've been there and donethat. It all makes sense if you take a little time toexplain/understand it properly.
Regards,Leo
L
L
Ludovic Courtès wrote on 4 May 20:57 +0200
control message for bug #47971
(address . control@debbugs.gnu.org)
87mttamimn.fsf@gnu.org
tags 47971 wontfixclose 47971quit
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