Packages which cant be find/removed by guix remove

OpenSubmitted by bo0od.
Details
5 participants
  • bo0od
  • Julien Lepiller
  • Leo Famulari
  • Maxime Devos
  • Mark H Weaver
Owner
unassigned
Severity
normal
B
(address . bug-guix@gnu.org)
efef684a-7ca9-cfb7-2335-b7ebf13b0f4e@riseup.net
Hi There,
I saw some packages installed by default with guix like wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix remove avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error message. (check the uploaded txt file)
user@host ~$ guix remove avahiguix remove: error: package 'avahi' not found in profileuser@host ~$ guix remove avahi-daemonguix remove: error: package 'avahi-daemon' not found in profileuser@host ~$ guix remove wpa-supplicantguix remove: error: package 'wpa-supplicant' not found in profileuser@host ~$

user@host ~$ guix gc --referrers 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store/1xral3q038nbard3y5djdfdxjam0ciib-pulseaudio-14.0.drv/gnu/store/2r9zirr9vysxfmd73lj6bs75fvdixaq8-vlc-3.0.12.drv/gnu/store/708ay3164c7hgfdbdc26a71i31irppbc-pulseaudio-14.0.drv/gnu/store/jazmmdx3vch5ld8n2aqc9f8rq53mj06a-vlc-3.0.12.drv/gnu/store/mll76wifijf98dqyaiw2w55c3i3gcmd5-cups-filters-1.27.4.drv/gnu/store/mnhgyj70m5s0b1ccji9krh5jz6nqwmjq-cups-filters-1.27.4.drv/gnu/store/mylkjkdradd3plmlpd5iz6i3wavzmxm6-avahi-0.8.drv/gnu/store/ny5rsc5iqrqz49kf3irqwyg6g4p11a5n-cups-2.3.3.drv/gnu/store/v5x3nfb1s3jkl6iccr52g8br6wiks56c-cups-filters-1.27.4.drv/gnu/store/ylafsnkbpxx29x6n8ajxipvjmy8249rp-cups-2.3.3.drv/gnu/store/yz8wycl42da3m3pmcjykx49qpbj4i6g6-cups-2.3.3.drv/gnu/store/ba8qfddncf0dbzbgl2vzlvd3i4pqy8zc-avahi-0.8.drv/gnu/store/rfrphy4qhiwjg2dn4win679h1xh5xd0h-avahi-0.8.drv/gnu/store/03f1as3ki6bfijahnndb1vl5q7w7kpdc-shepherd-avahi-daemon.scm.drv/gnu/store/2acc0yapcsqadfigzgci7qnr33wwzzm6-gvfs-1.40.2.drv/gnu/store/3js6s8b93ddwmwqd8q96di3sw313kziw-manual-database.drv/gnu/store/41i5bg47vhpllq93sfzbxi72c7mpv1nv-ca-certificate-bundle.drv/gnu/store/8amwms6p40g3kahk01xncvfpp0b6avpz-info-dir.drv/gnu/store/a7zla3zjxlb3i2ng9k8wns85xd3ab5p1-cups-filters-1.27.4.drv/gnu/store/afg2m0j2157x3rgpp3wls1d50rr5f1nx-manual-database.drv/gnu/store/cwvx2za8wjy7bwxa8c8543vdw1j4psrl-cups-2.3.3.drv/gnu/store/f3l8a2hsn6wx021g3ahhlqmjwhcbjdsx-xdg-desktop-database.drv/gnu/store/fnhagmlfx6830n814aw2nbf9vwpppq7q-profile.drv/gnu/store/fp6z3y826ly6b831h2qfk2r5j9cikb91-cups-2.3.3.drv/gnu/store/frfmsk5n7n7ls6wq5l7vzsahhnis1r7f-fonts-dir.drv/gnu/store/hx1jfl0kf7qi1cs1mwc7wlkvvljk514l-cups-filters-1.27.4.drv/gnu/store/jj8fwyhwl970zyrb8nfbi69v0691vwdm-gtk-icon-themes.drv/gnu/store/jn95y6fq5szwfkhazvrz3hymhcs65q6h-glib-schemas.drv/gnu/store/k07fvar4w57qra9cyiv3c782vv08n3m8-gtk-icon-themes.drv/gnu/store/k3i2d5kha96abzkz3cvv25qb4kqh12xi-dbus-system-services.drv/gnu/store/l0p2rgzjng97rjvkrsgvwfh47blacawg-profile.drv/gnu/store/m48lw8d3vm2abyk2cikg4pz1vv4m8frn-glib-schemas.drv/gnu/store/mn0dnsvd9qw02pxmqkrb3s19gv117vq0-gtk-im-modules.drv/gnu/store/nw7n77dfp0apgqnn4fd75hdvrpibdd24-ca-certificate-bundle.drv/gnu/store/qa688smkv73wwg5r3hhbhb3vchwissb1-vlc-3.0.12.drv/gnu/store/qilmwx8nqjsc47ppzhwwkwn48a6dhjir-dbus-configuration.drv/gnu/store/qmjifwc11bfa44p9ssjxg8mapfip502q-gvfs-1.40.2.drv/gnu/store/r9h8fsik4x3dj7vm2xm0apk05bb3i6zh-geoclue-2.5.7.drv/gnu/store/vd7vw8qbwavkybil28mra0m2ph35wams-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf.drv/gnu/store/vpl83myy4a8yir0bh324i7m1ycarizw1-xdg-mime-database.drv/gnu/store/w8irncq3by6dhr0sbgnxx0b8rmdizbxa-fonts-dir.drv/gnu/store/wcp83397hqq58fmhp3y9iv4xwcc2dac6-info-dir.drv/gnu/store/wj24pyvjn3ysp2hivnxwhys5za8zmrcq-gtk-im-modules.drv/gnu/store/wmhn1nf7gmk8pwfss9q7p2rsnc3scd1l-xdg-mime-database.drv/gnu/store/xzgwq08jkmzx3lwx31lb09pj32h8li2c-pulseaudio-14.0.drv/gnu/store/z48nb90vj56x5hbrv004462l8x45w0mv-xdg-desktop-database.drv/gnu/store/03z21il6fir91ci1qs3vf7z82ndgj7ch-cups-filters-1.27.4/gnu/store/1fi40biz0j09jbm52g3zjz9smw6xhx87-shepherd-avahi-daemon.scm/gnu/store/1vnpp4zml3hwnddmlzasg1q5rrpl06m7-shepherd-avahi-daemon.go/gnu/store/4dcmzk4sq3dx51p095ay94cidlaxsghy-avahi-0.8/gnu/store/9785bvbl2jwml7kdpaj833j5f6mhav5y-pulseaudio-13.0/gnu/store/999jjspyragcmndfaa9xisx67b7haaa5-gvfs-1.40.1/gnu/store/l0j3dxb08h3wi7lz67qrig1z9a7fv6ws-manual-database/gnu/store/pi8z320xv4lis6i4zrgrr0gw23rmcjsh-pulseaudio-13.0/gnu/store/vcjjfk9qc3pr0c2r0bykg36r5kpksfyz-geoclue-2.5.6/gnu/store/w7ii7sv2a19rwlgfsi95862dbffqddb4-profile/gnu/store/wm8pcjaki12nqc963lkgqgnz4fjxkkg0-dbus-configuration/gnu/store/z0zbvjzmyw8drqwq7dygsfqlwavcnf3p-cups-2.3.3/gnu/store/1rf7lf538fc0zf3v1wwv0b2gj0khrhlx-avahi-0.8.tar.xz.drv/gnu/store/0lfalsfwv1r1h6rpmnbim16yy8h85la8-shepherd-avahi-daemon.go.drv/gnu/store/dmr9gv0ncp317ppb86bmvwpd1vjlxj5f-shepherd.conf/gnu/store/ba8qfddncf0dbzbgl2vzlvd3i4pqy8zc-avahi-0.8.drv/gnu/store/rfrphy4qhiwjg2dn4win679h1xh5xd0h-avahi-0.8.drv/gnu/store/1vnpp4zml3hwnddmlzasg1q5rrpl06m7-shepherd-avahi-daemon.go/gnu/store/w51rafgklfwh543xdb5bw3gprx2brl66-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf.drv/gnu/store/10s17yj1m4xz5kcpf5a0msnv5m9zvypj-avahi-0.8/gnu/store/753fad46vcvcw2xwwz0m6hq2ppwpjw8v-cups-2.3.3/gnu/store/838z921qafmmgi2bw27l30bmppgls9ad-pulseaudio-14.0/gnu/store/ffrhsirhlma8jckyrbn5xipnfxib7a9k-cups-filters-1.27.4/gnu/store/i1600pwd6k77ag31vwn449zz4n5f8p2q-cups-2.3.3/gnu/store/mvbz34is7cpi2jwq5z6rwdzn31hv0z54-vlc-3.0.12/gnu/store/q00h47bg9rnaswwcngpkh8smvdqfhlmb-cups-filters-1.27.4/gnu/store/pa5az3cb0mj5rgd7kbqw93lf5kcf7cjm-shepherd.conf.drv/gnu/store/0lfalsfwv1r1h6rpmnbim16yy8h85la8-shepherd-avahi-daemon.go.drv/gnu/store/4blapx3ij2l5bxnr3fi7k40d3mrcfzqk-upgrade-shepherd-services.scm.drvuser@host ~$
user@host ~$ guix gc --referrers /gnu/store/*wpa-supplicant*/gnu/store/cav2rgv73c5dx69931mpz810jhyj54kw-wpa-supplicant-2.9.drv/gnu/store/4blapx3ij2l5bxnr3fi7k40d3mrcfzqk-upgrade-shepherd-services.scm.drv/gnu/store/ljyk8b1gqd4rhcidspgzbshzg6p270ap-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.go.drv/gnu/store/dmr9gv0ncp317ppb86bmvwpd1vjlxj5f-shepherd.conf/gnu/store/fclxkw1h6k3fsdhxijj83cma4ycf3433-upgrade-shepherd-services.scm/gnu/store/fwiza81icr028hxg2209xbmd6wlmglah-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.go/gnu/store/pa5az3cb0mj5rgd7kbqw93lf5kcf7cjm-shepherd.conf.drv/gnu/store/bqk62q42g72gh533aiz67qd56cmhbl6s-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.scm/gnu/store/l0j3dxb08h3wi7lz67qrig1z9a7fv6ws-manual-database/gnu/store/m9r2ac09c9vqpjan2s1kaj3xpqanxwbh-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.go/gnu/store/w7ii7sv2a19rwlgfsi95862dbffqddb4-profile/gnu/store/wm8pcjaki12nqc963lkgqgnz4fjxkkg0-dbus-configuration/gnu/store/gvn2dhv8frh5rgzbq3f0ppbins1kayg5-wpa_supplicant-2.9.tar.xz.drv/gnu/store/gvn2dhv8frh5rgzbq3f0ppbins1kayg5-wpa_supplicant-2.9.tar.xz.drv/gnu/store/3js6s8b93ddwmwqd8q96di3sw313kziw-manual-database.drv/gnu/store/41i5bg47vhpllq93sfzbxi72c7mpv1nv-ca-certificate-bundle.drv/gnu/store/8amwms6p40g3kahk01xncvfpp0b6avpz-info-dir.drv/gnu/store/afg2m0j2157x3rgpp3wls1d50rr5f1nx-manual-database.drv/gnu/store/f3l8a2hsn6wx021g3ahhlqmjwhcbjdsx-xdg-desktop-database.drv/gnu/store/fnhagmlfx6830n814aw2nbf9vwpppq7q-profile.drv/gnu/store/frfmsk5n7n7ls6wq5l7vzsahhnis1r7f-fonts-dir.drv/gnu/store/jj8fwyhwl970zyrb8nfbi69v0691vwdm-gtk-icon-themes.drv/gnu/store/jn95y6fq5szwfkhazvrz3hymhcs65q6h-glib-schemas.drv/gnu/store/k07fvar4w57qra9cyiv3c782vv08n3m8-gtk-icon-themes.drv/gnu/store/k3i2d5kha96abzkz3cvv25qb4kqh12xi-dbus-system-services.drv/gnu/store/l0p2rgzjng97rjvkrsgvwfh47blacawg-profile.drv/gnu/store/m48lw8d3vm2abyk2cikg4pz1vv4m8frn-glib-schemas.drv/gnu/store/mn0dnsvd9qw02pxmqkrb3s19gv117vq0-gtk-im-modules.drv/gnu/store/nw7n77dfp0apgqnn4fd75hdvrpibdd24-ca-certificate-bundle.drv/gnu/store/qilmwx8nqjsc47ppzhwwkwn48a6dhjir-dbus-configuration.drv/gnu/store/vpl83myy4a8yir0bh324i7m1ycarizw1-xdg-mime-database.drv/gnu/store/w3s8faw7wfjhlp103zd12k3h9vqa6iv6-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.scm.drv/gnu/store/w8irncq3by6dhr0sbgnxx0b8rmdizbxa-fonts-dir.drv/gnu/store/wcp83397hqq58fmhp3y9iv4xwcc2dac6-info-dir.drv/gnu/store/wj24pyvjn3ysp2hivnxwhys5za8zmrcq-gtk-im-modules.drv/gnu/store/wmhn1nf7gmk8pwfss9q7p2rsnc3scd1l-xdg-mime-database.drv/gnu/store/z48nb90vj56x5hbrv004462l8x45w0mv-xdg-desktop-database.drv/gnu/store/h0fl0cc5xz2b71w5cqsi090fl4rx9qh2-wpa-supplicant-2.9.drv/gnu/store/fg6kfm0hq40kxnf5d8isqlrr3aq7j94v-shepherd.conf/gnu/store/1hak9174w7ccqswrmwpz4rk28n8hfb7z-profile/gnu/store/fwiza81icr028hxg2209xbmd6wlmglah-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.go/gnu/store/ip4b8rndva6f4if13xj7kdciaylmlc6z-profile/gnu/store/j6j50lv5bs3ygcw8kvxgxszbz547bbk9-dbus-configuration/gnu/store/m8ya22j2wrqgvkb3m1232cgh9d7y7qkn-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.scm/gnu/store/nmgapmd7bmb37vana0lrgw72q0wfg2cq-manual-database/gnu/store/pki4wqi556kw2vnkfh80qwh3q4da1czm-manual-database/gnu/store/h0fl0cc5xz2b71w5cqsi090fl4rx9qh2-wpa-supplicant-2.9.drv/gnu/store/m9r2ac09c9vqpjan2s1kaj3xpqanxwbh-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.go/gnu/store/w3s8faw7wfjhlp103zd12k3h9vqa6iv6-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.scm.drv/gnu/store/ljyk8b1gqd4rhcidspgzbshzg6p270ap-shepherd-wpa-supplicant.go.drvuser@host ~$
J
J
Julien Lepiller wrote on 14 Apr 02:28 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
20210414022859.3c98e08d@tachikoma.lepiller.eu
Le Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:46:19 +0000,bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :
Toggle quote (8 lines)> Hi There,> > I saw some packages installed by default with guix like> wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i> press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix remove> avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error message.> (check the uploaded txt file)
Guix has a different notion of "installed" and "not installed" fromother distros because of its model (and because it lets us use (but not"install") incompatible packages). In particular, there are multipleprofiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to avahi.In your case, I think avahi comes from two places:
First, guix itself depends on guile-avahi, which brings in avahi.That's because substitution can use avahi to get substitutes from yourlocal network.
Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is runningthe avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comesfrom a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely, but if youdon't want it to be running, that's where you'd remove it (eitherremove the explicit service, or the dependent service (guix publish?))
Avahi is added by the installer if you enable "Substitute serverdiscovery" in the installer.
Similarly, wpa-supplicant is probably part of another profile, or maybedeclared in your config.scm. Once you change it, you should reconfigure(guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm). This will not remove filesfrom the store, until you run guix gc.
When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user profile,in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that, ifany of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix removeavahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's notinstalled explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy adependency.
You can find out about these dependencies with guix graph, for instance:
guix graph -t references --path `readlink -f \ $HOME/.config/guix/current` `guix build avahi`
/gnu/store/9yvb5kknnq8b1mrfsqaggrgjifk2mgs4-profile/gnu/store/dy46rf8aknz4im7sjz89i9b7snqi1m8w-guix-f91e1046c/gnu/store/szyzmhsxckvb0h7pdh9ags9apd1sch7m-guix-command/gnu/store/zjpqr7m6j3cjk5l2sr81yxyg5ny4njy6-guix-module-union/gnu/store/jawdw5ca459z8y3a6hcd5pd772zjrs93-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf/gnu/store/gj0irsda1y0msawq8g1wfcgw7xcsxz2m-avahi-0.8
I hope this is helpful :)
M
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Mark H Weaver wrote on 14 Apr 04:44 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
87sg3tr3dh.fsf@netris.org
Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:
Toggle quote (4 lines)> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely,
The avahi service is included in '%desktop-services'.
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/services/desktop.scm?id=a758a8a3c20052c5f1228e1ec80068652bbc3849#n1267
I don't know off-hand what is the current recommended way to removeunwanted services from convenience variables like '%desktop-services'.I suppose something like this (untested) in place of'%desktop-services':
__ (remove (lambda (svc)____________ (eq? (service-kind svc) avahi-service-type))__________ %desktop-services)
with at least the following modules included at the top of the file:
__ (use-modules (gnu services)_______________ (gnu services avahi)_______________ (srfi srfi-1))
My own longstanding (and questionable) approach has been to avoid using'%desktop-services', and instead to inline its contents into my OSconfig, minus the stuff I don't want. However, if you choose to usethat method, it's probably a good idea to periodically check for changesto '%desktop-services', and to integrate those changes into your ownconfig where appropriate.
Mark
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Julien Lepiller wrote on 14 Apr 12:34 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
21094992-5632-4D68-B051-2A13AE61AC1C@lepiller.eu
Le 13 avril 2021 22:44:31 GMT-04:00, Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> a écrit :
Toggle quote (35 lines)>Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely,>>The avahi service is included in '%desktop-services'.>>https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/services/desktop.scm?id=a758a8a3c20052c5f1228e1ec80068652bbc3849#n1267>>I don't know off-hand what is the current recommended way to remove>unwanted services from convenience variables like '%desktop-services'.>I suppose something like this (untested) in place of>'%desktop-services':>>__ (remove (lambda (svc)>____________ (eq? (service-kind svc) avahi-service-type))>__________ %desktop-services)>>with at least the following modules included at the top of the file:>>__ (use-modules (gnu services)>_______________ (gnu services avahi)>_______________ (srfi srfi-1))>>My own longstanding (and questionable) approach has been to avoid using>'%desktop-services', and instead to inline its contents into my OS>config, minus the stuff I don't want. However, if you choose to use>that method, it's probably a good idea to periodically check for>changes>to '%desktop-services', and to integrate those changes into your own>config where appropriate.>> Mark
The manual suggests modify-services in some places:
(modify-services %desktop-services (delete avahi-service-type))
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Mark H Weaver wrote on 14 Apr 18:07 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
87fszsrgs9.fsf@netris.org
Hi Julien,
Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:
Toggle quote (5 lines)> The manual suggests modify-services in some places:>> (modify-services %desktop-services> (delete avahi-service-type))
I don't see how this can work. (modify-services ...) expands into acall to 'map', which is incapable of deleting elements. Also, the'modify-services' docstring states:
"Each clause must have the form: (TYPE VARIABLE => BODY)"
Am I missing something?
Mark
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(name . Julien Lepiller)(address . julien@lepiller.eu)(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
cd89b752-1d41-0179-9111-a1eb9b03c173@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> In particular, there are multiple
> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to avahi.
That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove doesnt recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will break something important guix should say that after processing the command guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to proceed? <- something like that.
> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running > the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes > from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely
do you mean config.scm? if you need something type the command or where and i will bring it to you.

> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user profile, > in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that, if > any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove > avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not > installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a > dependency.
You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then ops guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be said about this bad usability.
> I hope this is helpful :)
Appreciated :)
Julien Lepiller:
Toggle quote (56 lines)> Le Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:46:19 +0000,> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :> >> Hi There,>>>> I saw some packages installed by default with guix like>> wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i>> press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix remove>> avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error message.>> (check the uploaded txt file)> > Guix has a different notion of "installed" and "not installed" from> other distros because of its model (and because it lets us use (but not> "install") incompatible packages). In particular, there are multiple> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to avahi.> In your case, I think avahi comes from two places:> > First, guix itself depends on guile-avahi, which brings in avahi.> That's because substitution can use avahi to get substitutes from your> local network.> > Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely, but if you> don't want it to be running, that's where you'd remove it (either> remove the explicit service, or the dependent service (guix publish?))> > Avahi is added by the installer if you enable "Substitute server> discovery" in the installer.> > Similarly, wpa-supplicant is probably part of another profile, or maybe> declared in your config.scm. Once you change it, you should reconfigure> (guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm). This will not remove files> from the store, until you run guix gc.> > When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user profile,> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that, if> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a> dependency.> > You can find out about these dependencies with guix graph, for instance:> > guix graph -t references --path `readlink -f \> $HOME/.config/guix/current` `guix build avahi`> > /gnu/store/9yvb5kknnq8b1mrfsqaggrgjifk2mgs4-profile> /gnu/store/dy46rf8aknz4im7sjz89i9b7snqi1m8w-guix-f91e1046c> /gnu/store/szyzmhsxckvb0h7pdh9ags9apd1sch7m-guix-command> /gnu/store/zjpqr7m6j3cjk5l2sr81yxyg5ny4njy6-guix-module-union> /gnu/store/jawdw5ca459z8y3a6hcd5pd772zjrs93-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf> /gnu/store/gj0irsda1y0msawq8g1wfcgw7xcsxz2m-avahi-0.8> > I hope this is helpful :)>
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Mark H Weaver wrote on 14 Apr 20:42 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
87czuwr9l5.fsf@netris.org
Hi,
bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:
Toggle quote (10 lines)> > In particular, there are multiple> > profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to avahi.>> That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove doesnt > recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will break > something important guix should say that after processing the command > guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is > dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to > proceed? <- something like that.
This seems to be based on a misunderstanding about what "guix remove" isintended to do. As Julien indicated, it is _only_ meant to remove thegiven packages from the set of *explicitly-requested* packages installedin your user profile. More precisely, it creates a _new_ user profilethat's the same as the previous one, but with some packages removed fromthe set of explicitly-requested packages. It _never_ deletes anything.
You seem to want it to do something different than it was intended todo, although I'm not precisely sure what that is. Do you want it to tryto purge all copies of the given package from /gnu/store? If so, thatmight require deleting (or modifying) older system generations and olderuser profiles, which would interfere with rollback functionality. Orperhaps you want it to automatically update all user profiles, as wellas the system, to avoid depending on that package, directly orindirectly? If so, there are a couple of problems with that: (1) onmulti-user systems (which is admittedly becoming an edge case) it wouldviolate the principle that each user should have control over their ownprofiles, and (2) it would apparently involve automagically editing yourOS configuration file to remove any packages or services that depend(directly or indirectly) on the specified packages.
From my perspective, it seems that you have expectations about howpackage managers should work based on your experience with traditionalGNU/Linux distributions. Guix is based on a radically differentapproach which takes some time to become acquainted with. Perhaps ourdocumentation needs to be improved to better manage user expectations.
It reminds me of how many developers responded when asked to switch toGit from CVS or Subversion. Many developers found that transitiondifficult, and considered it a flaw in Git that it failed to conform totheir expectations.
Nonetheless, I very much appreciate your feedback. I suspect that manyother people experimenting with Guix feel as you do, but that some ofthem are simply walking away in silence. Thanks for making aconstructive effort to engage with us on these issues.
Regards, Mark
M
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Maxime Devos wrote on 14 Apr 20:44 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
a20a71bc57e53720759804ac5d4037d92aabb723.camel@telenet.be
On Wed, 2021-04-14 at 16:31 +0000, bo0od wrote:
Toggle quote (6 lines)> > Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running> > the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes> > from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely> > do you mean config.scm?
I'm not Julien Lepiller, but I believe that's wat asked for-- the file with the (operating-system ...) declaration.
Toggle quote (2 lines)> if you need something type the command or where > and i will bring it to you.
It's the *file* ‘we’ need. (Well, the file JL needs.)It's not a command you need to type, it's a file you needto attach to the e-mail.
Toggle quote (12 lines)> > When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user profile,> > in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that, if> > any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove> > avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not> > installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a> > dependency.> > You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then ops > guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no > error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be said > about this bad usability.
Currently the error message when removing a package not existing in the profileis:
$ guix remove m17n-libguix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profile
What do you think of adding a few hints? Some ideas:
guix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profileHint: All users have their own profiles. To remove packages from the profileof the root user, run "sudo guix remove PACKAGES" or equivalent.Hint: On Guix System, packages can defined in the operating system declaration.These are not affected by "guix remove PACKAGES".
and, when applicable:
Hint: 'm17n-lib' is propagated from 'MANUALLY-INSTALLED-PACKAGE', via N intermediatepackages. Consider running "guix remove MANUALLY-INSTALLED-PACKAGE" instead.
Would that have been helpful to you?
Greetings,Maxime.
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Julien Lepiller wrote on 14 Apr 20:48 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
609E45C8-122E-4894-A9E4-C5F12B3BD39A@lepiller.eu
Le 14 avril 2021 12:31:31 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :
Toggle quote (12 lines)> > In particular, there are multiple>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>avahi.>>That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove doesnt >recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will>break >something important guix should say that after processing the command >guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is >dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to >proceed? <- something like that.
guix removc only operates on your user profile, which doesn't contain avahi. That's what it's telling you.
You can check that you do not have avahi installed in your profile with
guix package -l
And that none of your installed packages depend on it:
guix size `readlink -f ~/.guix-profile`
Guix operates only on explicitely installed packages, which I think is much cleaner and allows it to be more predictable. Compare, if A depends on B and C, initially you have all three.
apt install B then apt remove A -> nothingapt remove A then apt install B -> only B
guix install B then guix remove A -> B and Cguix remove A then guix install B -> B and C
guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package managers. New tool, new usages.
Toggle quote (9 lines)>> > Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes> > from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely>>do you mean config.scm? if you need something type the command or where>>and i will bring it to you.
Yes, I meant /etc/config.scm (well, by convention, as you can always create the file elsewhere). But I don't need it anymore, since I learned it's actually part of the default %desktop-services.
Toggle quote (16 lines)>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>profile,>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that,>if> > any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove> > avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not> > installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a> > dependency.>>You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then ops>>guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no >error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be said >about this bad usability.
It's not "no message", is it? I lust tried "guix remove hello", and I don't have hello in my profile. It told me (in red): error: package 'hello' not found in profile.
Not sure how it could be more explicit.
Toggle quote (72 lines)>> > I hope this is helpful :)>>Appreciated :)>>Julien Lepiller:>> Le Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:46:19 +0000,>> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :>> >>> Hi There,>>>>>> I saw some packages installed by default with guix like>>> wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i>>> press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix remove>>> avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error message.>>> (check the uploaded txt file)>> >> Guix has a different notion of "installed" and "not installed" from>> other distros because of its model (and because it lets us use (but>not>> "install") incompatible packages). In particular, there are multiple>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>avahi.>> In your case, I think avahi comes from two places:>> >> First, guix itself depends on guile-avahi, which brings in avahi.>> That's because substitution can use avahi to get substitutes from>your>> local network.>> >> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely, but if you>> don't want it to be running, that's where you'd remove it (either>> remove the explicit service, or the dependent service (guix>publish?))>> >> Avahi is added by the installer if you enable "Substitute server>> discovery" in the installer.>> >> Similarly, wpa-supplicant is probably part of another profile, or>maybe>> declared in your config.scm. Once you change it, you should>reconfigure>> (guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm). This will not remove files>> from the store, until you run guix gc.>> >> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>profile,>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that,>if>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>> dependency.>> >> You can find out about these dependencies with guix graph, for>instance:>> >> guix graph -t references --path `readlink -f \>> $HOME/.config/guix/current` `guix build avahi`>> >> /gnu/store/9yvb5kknnq8b1mrfsqaggrgjifk2mgs4-profile>> /gnu/store/dy46rf8aknz4im7sjz89i9b7snqi1m8w-guix-f91e1046c>> /gnu/store/szyzmhsxckvb0h7pdh9ags9apd1sch7m-guix-command>> /gnu/store/zjpqr7m6j3cjk5l2sr81yxyg5ny4njy6-guix-module-union>>>/gnu/store/jawdw5ca459z8y3a6hcd5pd772zjrs93-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf>> /gnu/store/gj0irsda1y0msawq8g1wfcgw7xcsxz2m-avahi-0.8>> >> I hope this is helpful :)>>
B
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
ffa6c5ab-d4e9-1d96-2ee7-fdf8657abe8b@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> You seem to want it to do something different than it was intended to
> do, although I'm not precisely sure what that is. Do you want it to try > to purge all copies of the given package from /gnu/store? If so, that > might require deleting (or modifying) older system generations and older > user profiles, which would interfere with rollback functionality.
Isnt this the standard understanding of deleting a package whether in GNU/Linux or Windows or Mac? If user has the root rights he should be able to delete software x, otherwise software x just hanging there forever and to delete it someone needs a hell of steps to do that and if so then this is can have usability issues , and so as security issues. usability issues are clear like the example above which i want to delete x using package manager (Thats gnu/linux way of deleting packages if mistaken correct me) then it wont be deleted. For security issues if x package is outdated and/or got widely exploited security vulnerability it just wont be gone from the distro (least we can say easily) leading to permanent vulnerability in the OS.
> Or perhaps you want it to automatically update all user profiles, as well > as the system, to avoid depending on that package, directly or > indirectly? If so, there are a couple of problems with that: (1) on > multi-user systems (which is admittedly becoming an edge case) it would > violate the principle that each user should have control over their own > profiles, and (2) it would apparently involve automagically editing your > OS configuration file to remove any packages or services that depend > (directly or indirectly) on the specified packages.
So you see for example wpa-supplicant is not essential package for an OS which doesnt use wifi, Yet in guix i cant just delete it using guix remove it or sudo guix remove it, I find this annoying to have something like this happening within my OS.
Check main distros like Debian or Fedora and i want to know where is that avahi or wpa-supplicant (god know how many more) cant be removed?
Btw even packages which might break the distro you can delete them if you have root rights using just the package manager with the same simple command.
> Nonetheless, I very much appreciate your feedback. I suspect that many > other people experimenting with Guix feel as you do, but that some of > them are simply walking away in silence.
Sure anytime, Thanks to you 2 <f>
Mark H Weaver:
Toggle quote (54 lines)> Hi,> > bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:> >> > In particular, there are multiple>> > profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to avahi.>>>> That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove doesnt>> recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will break>> something important guix should say that after processing the command>> guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is>> dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to>> proceed? <- something like that.> > This seems to be based on a misunderstanding about what "guix remove" is> intended to do. As Julien indicated, it is _only_ meant to remove the> given packages from the set of *explicitly-requested* packages installed> in your user profile. More precisely, it creates a _new_ user profile> that's the same as the previous one, but with some packages removed from> the set of explicitly-requested packages. It _never_ deletes anything.> > You seem to want it to do something different than it was intended to> do, although I'm not precisely sure what that is. Do you want it to try> to purge all copies of the given package from /gnu/store? If so, that> might require deleting (or modifying) older system generations and older> user profiles, which would interfere with rollback functionality. Or> perhaps you want it to automatically update all user profiles, as well> as the system, to avoid depending on that package, directly or> indirectly? If so, there are a couple of problems with that: (1) on> multi-user systems (which is admittedly becoming an edge case) it would> violate the principle that each user should have control over their own> profiles, and (2) it would apparently involve automagically editing your> OS configuration file to remove any packages or services that depend> (directly or indirectly) on the specified packages.> >>From my perspective, it seems that you have expectations about how> package managers should work based on your experience with traditional> GNU/Linux distributions. Guix is based on a radically different> approach which takes some time to become acquainted with. Perhaps our> documentation needs to be improved to better manage user expectations.> > It reminds me of how many developers responded when asked to switch to> Git from CVS or Subversion. Many developers found that transition> difficult, and considered it a flaw in Git that it failed to conform to> their expectations.> > Nonetheless, I very much appreciate your feedback. I suspect that many> other people experimenting with Guix feel as you do, but that some of> them are simply walking away in silence. Thanks for making a> constructive effort to engage with us on these issues.> > Regards,> Mark>
B
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
f8e5135f-aead-29b9-34e6-106155d40a27@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> guix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profile
> Hint: All users have their own profiles. To remove packages from the profile > of the root user, run "sudo guix remove PACKAGES" or equivalent.
yeah very nice one, except that "sudo guix remove package" doesnt work :(
This is how its done in debian/fedora, for e.g this is what debian error give if apt needs root rights to delete a package:
"user@host:~$ apt remove hexchatE: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied)E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?"
This is what it shows in Fedora:
"[user@host ~]$ dnf remove wpa-supplicantError: This command has to be run with superuser privileges (under the root user on most systems)."
But like i said current situation in guix is not about using sudo guix or guix alone.
Maxime Devos:
Toggle quote (52 lines)> On Wed, 2021-04-14 at 16:31 +0000, bo0od wrote:>> > Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>> > the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes>> > from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely>>>> do you mean config.scm?> > I'm not Julien Lepiller, but I believe that's wat asked for> -- the file with the (operating-system ...) declaration.> >> if you need something type the command or where>> and i will bring it to you.> It's the *file* ‘we’ need. (Well, the file JL needs.)> It's not a command you need to type, it's a file you need> to attach to the e-mail.> >> > When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user profile,>> > in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that, if>> > any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>> > avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>> > installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>> > dependency.>>>> You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then ops>> guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no>> error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be said>> about this bad usability.> > Currently the error message when removing a package not existing in the profile> is:> > $ guix remove m17n-lib> guix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profile> > What do you think of adding a few hints? Some ideas:> > guix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profile> Hint: All users have their own profiles. To remove packages from the profile> of the root user, run "sudo guix remove PACKAGES" or equivalent.> Hint: On Guix System, packages can defined in the operating system declaration.> These are not affected by "guix remove PACKAGES".> > and, when applicable:> > Hint: 'm17n-lib' is propagated from 'MANUALLY-INSTALLED-PACKAGE', via N intermediate> packages. Consider running "guix remove MANUALLY-INSTALLED-PACKAGE" instead.> > Would that have been helpful to you?> > Greetings,> Maxime.>
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(name . Julien Lepiller)(address . julien@lepiller.eu)(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
56554d77-8ff5-f7a6-b5be-1302cf14ba9d@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are
implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package managers. New tool, new usages.
So how user gonna delete preinstalled packages which are not installed by guix install x?
wpa-supplicant is none essential package when there is no wifi, how user gonna delete it?
no easy way to do it (i mean easy as similarly to apt/dnf..etc) thats the whole issue
Maybe something like synapse should exist to do this job in guixos?
I dunno, But current idea of no clean,easy way to delete these packages (or similar) just bad usability experience.



Julien Lepiller:
Toggle quote (137 lines)> Le 14 avril 2021 12:31:31 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :>>> In particular, there are multiple>>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>> avahi.>>>> That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove doesnt>> recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will>> break>> something important guix should say that after processing the command>> guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is>> dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to>> proceed? <- something like that.> > guix removc only operates on your user profile, which doesn't contain avahi. That's what it's telling you.> > You can check that you do not have avahi installed in your profile with> > guix package -l> > And that none of your installed packages depend on it:> > guix size `readlink -f ~/.guix-profile`> > Guix operates only on explicitely installed packages, which I think is much cleaner and allows it to be more predictable. Compare, if A depends on B and C, initially you have all three.> > apt install B then apt remove A -> nothing> apt remove A then apt install B -> only B> > guix install B then guix remove A -> B and C> guix remove A then guix install B -> B and C> > guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package managers. New tool, new usages.> >>>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes>>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely>>>> do you mean config.scm? if you need something type the command or where>>>> and i will bring it to you.> > Yes, I meant /etc/config.scm (well, by convention, as you can always create the file elsewhere). But I don't need it anymore, since I learned it's actually part of the default %desktop-services.> >>>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>> profile,>>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that,>> if>>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>>> dependency.>>>> You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then ops>>>> guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no>> error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be said>> about this bad usability.> > It's not "no message", is it? I lust tried "guix remove hello", and I don't have hello in my profile. It told me (in red): error: package 'hello' not found in profile.> > Not sure how it could be more explicit.> >>>>> I hope this is helpful :)>>>> Appreciated :)>>>> Julien Lepiller:>>> Le Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:46:19 +0000,>>> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :>>>>>>> Hi There,>>>>>>>> I saw some packages installed by default with guix like>>>> wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i>>>> press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix remove>>>> avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error message.>>>> (check the uploaded txt file)>>>>>> Guix has a different notion of "installed" and "not installed" from>>> other distros because of its model (and because it lets us use (but>> not>>> "install") incompatible packages). In particular, there are multiple>>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>> avahi.>>> In your case, I think avahi comes from two places:>>>>>> First, guix itself depends on guile-avahi, which brings in avahi.>>> That's because substitution can use avahi to get substitutes from>> your>>> local network.>>>>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it comes>>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely, but if you>>> don't want it to be running, that's where you'd remove it (either>>> remove the explicit service, or the dependent service (guix>> publish?))>>>>>> Avahi is added by the installer if you enable "Substitute server>>> discovery" in the installer.>>>>>> Similarly, wpa-supplicant is probably part of another profile, or>> maybe>>> declared in your config.scm. Once you change it, you should>> reconfigure>>> (guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm). This will not remove files>>> from the store, until you run guix gc.>>>>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>> profile,>>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note that,>> if>>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>>> dependency.>>>>>> You can find out about these dependencies with guix graph, for>> instance:>>>>>> guix graph -t references --path `readlink -f \>>> $HOME/.config/guix/current` `guix build avahi`>>>>>> /gnu/store/9yvb5kknnq8b1mrfsqaggrgjifk2mgs4-profile>>> /gnu/store/dy46rf8aknz4im7sjz89i9b7snqi1m8w-guix-f91e1046c>>> /gnu/store/szyzmhsxckvb0h7pdh9ags9apd1sch7m-guix-command>>> /gnu/store/zjpqr7m6j3cjk5l2sr81yxyg5ny4njy6-guix-module-union>>>>> /gnu/store/jawdw5ca459z8y3a6hcd5pd772zjrs93-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf>>> /gnu/store/gj0irsda1y0msawq8g1wfcgw7xcsxz2m-avahi-0.8>>>>>> I hope this is helpful :)>>>>
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Julien Lepiller wrote on 15 Apr 13:03 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
1A541367-BB79-4AC9-9444-BA85D5F38914@lepiller.eu
Le 15 avril 2021 06:16:51 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :
Toggle quote (20 lines)> > guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are >implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package >managers. New tool, new usages.>>So how user gonna delete preinstalled packages which are not installed >by guix install x?>>wpa-supplicant is none essential package when there is no wifi, how>user >gonna delete it?>>no easy way to do it (i mean easy as similarly to apt/dnf..etc) thats >the whole issue>>Maybe something like synapse should exist to do this job in guixos?>>I dunno, But current idea of no clean,easy way to delete these packages>>(or similar) just bad usability experience.
Again, you have the wrong idea. wpa-supplicant is not installed, but its service is running, because it's part oh %desktop-services. No amount of guix remove will help you, because it can only wosk on user (or root) profiles, not the system services.
To remove it, you need to remove it from your os declaration (/etc/config.scm) with something like this:
(modify-services %desktop-services (delete wpa-supplicant-service-type))
(Or something similar, the manual suggests the above for removing gdm for instance, but there seems to be doubts about whether that's actually correct or not)
Then reconfigure your new system:
sudo guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm
Now, your new generation is not running wpa-supplicant anymore (you can check sudo herd status for that). Older generations still have wpa-supplicant, so it's still hanging around in the store. To purge it, you can delete those generations (loosing all possibility ofqrolling back to them):
sudo guix system delete-generationsguix gc # to effectively remove unnecessary store items
After that, you should not have wpa-supplicant in the store anymore.
HTH!
Toggle quote (168 lines)>>>>>Julien Lepiller:>> Le 14 avril 2021 12:31:31 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit>:>>>> In particular, there are multiple>>>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>>> avahi.>>>>>> That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove>doesnt>>> recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will>>> break>>> something important guix should say that after processing the>command>>> guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is>>> dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to>>> proceed? <- something like that.>> >> guix removc only operates on your user profile, which doesn't contain>avahi. That's what it's telling you.>> >> You can check that you do not have avahi installed in your profile>with>> >> guix package -l>> >> And that none of your installed packages depend on it:>> >> guix size `readlink -f ~/.guix-profile`>> >> Guix operates only on explicitely installed packages, which I think>is much cleaner and allows it to be more predictable. Compare, if A>depends on B and C, initially you have all three.>> >> apt install B then apt remove A -> nothing>> apt remove A then apt install B -> only B>> >> guix install B then guix remove A -> B and C>> guix remove A then guix install B -> B and C>> >> guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are>implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package>managers. New tool, new usages.>> >>>>>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>>>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it>comes>>>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely>>>>>> do you mean config.scm? if you need something type the command or>where>>>>>> and i will bring it to you.>> >> Yes, I meant /etc/config.scm (well, by convention, as you can always>create the file elsewhere). But I don't need it anymore, since I>learned it's actually part of the default %desktop-services.>> >>>>>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>>> profile,>>>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note>that,>>> if>>>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>>>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>>>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>>>> dependency.>>>>>> You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then>ops>>>>>> guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no>>> error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be>said>>> about this bad usability.>> >> It's not "no message", is it? I lust tried "guix remove hello", and I>don't have hello in my profile. It told me (in red): error: package>'hello' not found in profile.>> >> Not sure how it could be more explicit.>> >>>>>>> I hope this is helpful :)>>>>>> Appreciated :)>>>>>> Julien Lepiller:>>>> Le Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:46:19 +0000,>>>> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :>>>>>>>>> Hi There,>>>>>>>>>> I saw some packages installed by default with guix like>>>>> wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i>>>>> press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix>remove>>>>> avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error>message.>>>>> (check the uploaded txt file)>>>>>>>> Guix has a different notion of "installed" and "not installed" from>>>> other distros because of its model (and because it lets us use (but>>> not>>>> "install") incompatible packages). In particular, there are>multiple>>>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>>> avahi.>>>> In your case, I think avahi comes from two places:>>>>>>>> First, guix itself depends on guile-avahi, which brings in avahi.>>>> That's because substitution can use avahi to get substitutes from>>> your>>>> local network.>>>>>>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>>>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it>comes>>>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely, but if>you>>>> don't want it to be running, that's where you'd remove it (either>>>> remove the explicit service, or the dependent service (guix>>> publish?))>>>>>>>> Avahi is added by the installer if you enable "Substitute server>>>> discovery" in the installer.>>>>>>>> Similarly, wpa-supplicant is probably part of another profile, or>>> maybe>>>> declared in your config.scm. Once you change it, you should>>> reconfigure>>>> (guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm). This will not remove>files>>>> from the store, until you run guix gc.>>>>>>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>>> profile,>>>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note>that,>>> if>>>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>>>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>>>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>>>> dependency.>>>>>>>> You can find out about these dependencies with guix graph, for>>> instance:>>>>>>>> guix graph -t references --path `readlink -f \>>>> $HOME/.config/guix/current` `guix build avahi`>>>>>>>> /gnu/store/9yvb5kknnq8b1mrfsqaggrgjifk2mgs4-profile>>>> /gnu/store/dy46rf8aknz4im7sjz89i9b7snqi1m8w-guix-f91e1046c>>>> /gnu/store/szyzmhsxckvb0h7pdh9ags9apd1sch7m-guix-command>>>> /gnu/store/zjpqr7m6j3cjk5l2sr81yxyg5ny4njy6-guix-module-union>>>>>>>>/gnu/store/jawdw5ca459z8y3a6hcd5pd772zjrs93-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf>>>> /gnu/store/gj0irsda1y0msawq8g1wfcgw7xcsxz2m-avahi-0.8>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful :)>>>>>>
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Maxime Devos wrote on 15 Apr 20:04 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
607e61d554b9eb6dedf6c9d3acf2ce414fe8d3c1.camel@telenet.be
On Thu, 2021-04-15 at 09:37 +0000, bo0od wrote:
Toggle quote (7 lines)> > guix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profile> > Hint: All users have their own profiles. To remove packages from the > profile> > of the root user, run "sudo guix remove PACKAGES" or equivalent.> > yeah very nice one, except that "sudo guix remove package" doesnt work :(
I suggested two hints. What do you think of the second hint:
Hint: On Guix System, packages can defined in the operating system declaration.These are not affected by "guix remove PACKAGES".
I don't know if it applies to your exact situation though (not followingthe discussion very closely).
Toggle quote (11 lines)> This is how its done in debian/fedora, for e.g this is what debian error > give if apt needs root rights to delete a package:> > "user@host:~$ apt remove hexchat> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: > Permission denied)> E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock > (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?"> > This is what it shows in Fedora: [...]
In that case, my first hint would have been informative, no?I don't see what you are trying to show here.
Greetings,Maxime.
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Mark H Weaver wrote on 15 Apr 21:34 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
87blafibp3.fsf@netris.org
bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:
Toggle quote (10 lines)> > You seem to want it to do something different than it was intended to> > do, although I'm not precisely sure what that is. Do you want it to try> > to purge all copies of the given package from /gnu/store? If so, that> > might require deleting (or modifying) older system generations and older> > user profiles, which would interfere with rollback functionality.>> Isnt this the standard understanding of deleting a package whether in > GNU/Linux or Windows or Mac? If user has the root rights he should be > able to delete software x,
The command in Guix that most closely matches what you seem to be askingfor is "guix gc --delete", which will try to delete a given set of storeitems. In your original bug report, it looks like 'avahi' was one ofthe things you were trying to remove, so I'll use that as an example:
Toggle snippet (5 lines)mhw@jojen ~$ guix gc --delete /gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8finding garbage collector roots...guix gc: error: cannot delete path `/gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8' since it is still alive
If you get this error, you can use "guix gc --referrers" to find outwhat's keeping it alive:
Toggle snippet (11 lines)mhw@jojen ~$ guix gc --referrers /gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8/gnu/store/…-geoclue-2.5.7/gnu/store/…-gvfs-1.40.2/gnu/store/…-pulseaudio-14.0/gnu/store/…-cups-filters-1.27.4/gnu/store/…-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf/gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8/gnu/store/…-cups-2.3.3/gnu/store/…-grilo-plugins-0.3.11
So, it looks like I won't be able to remove avahi from my store, atleast not if I want to keep GNOME, CUPS, or Pulseaudio.
For similar reasons, I can't remove Avahi from my Debian server either:
Toggle snippet (11 lines)root@world:~# dpkg -r libavahi-client3dpkg: dependency problems prevent removal of libavahi-client3:amd64: libvirt0:amd64 depends on libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16). libcups2:amd64 depends on libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16).
dpkg: error processing package libavahi-client3:amd64 (--remove): dependency problems - not removingErrors were encountered while processing: libavahi-client3:amd64
Anyway, I agree that it would be good to have a user-friendly way to askGuix why a given piece of software is in their store, and to help themfind ways to remove it, if possible. We have some tools to help withthis, e.g. "guix gc --referrers", "guix graph --type=reverse-package","guix graph --type=reverse-bag", and "guix graph --path", etc, butthere's plenty of room for improvement.
Mark
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(name . Julien Lepiller)(address . julien@lepiller.eu)(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
d7815c8c-a02d-f6e6-9244-260ff7e825a6@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> Again, you have the wrong idea. wpa-supplicant is not installed, but
its service is running, because it's part oh %desktop-services. No amount of guix remove will help you, because it can only wosk on user (or root) profiles, not the system services. > > To remove it, you need to remove it from your os declaration (/etc/config.scm) with something like this:[...]
My friend isnt this what im saying not friendly,bad usability,disaster...etc
And i said to have maybe something like synapse which mean addressing everything installed and user can just remove the packages by clicking on them (or lets call it the GUI way of doing it) similar to the functionally you showed:
"(modify-services %desktop-services (delete wpa-supplicant-service-type))"
... or whatever suits the development and give friendly result, But if you tell me in 2021 user gonna go to /x/y/z then modify manually and add lines blah remove blah <- call me if guix will ever be a top usable distro in the coming 20 years from now or ever.

Julien Lepiller:
Toggle quote (212 lines)> Le 15 avril 2021 06:16:51 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :>>> guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are>> implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package>> managers. New tool, new usages.>>>> So how user gonna delete preinstalled packages which are not installed>> by guix install x?>>>> wpa-supplicant is none essential package when there is no wifi, how>> user>> gonna delete it?>>>> no easy way to do it (i mean easy as similarly to apt/dnf..etc) thats>> the whole issue>>>> Maybe something like synapse should exist to do this job in guixos?>>>> I dunno, But current idea of no clean,easy way to delete these packages>>>> (or similar) just bad usability experience.> > Again, you have the wrong idea. wpa-supplicant is not installed, but its service is running, because it's part oh %desktop-services. No amount of guix remove will help you, because it can only wosk on user (or root) profiles, not the system services.> > To remove it, you need to remove it from your os declaration (/etc/config.scm) with something like this:> > (modify-services %desktop-services> (delete wpa-supplicant-service-type))> > (Or something similar, the manual suggests the above for removing gdm for instance, but there seems to be doubts about whether that's actually correct or not)> > Then reconfigure your new system:> > sudo guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm> > Now, your new generation is not running wpa-supplicant anymore (you can check sudo herd status for that). Older generations still have wpa-supplicant, so it's still hanging around in the store. To purge it, you can delete those generations (loosing all possibility ofqrolling back to them):> > sudo guix system delete-generations> guix gc # to effectively remove unnecessary store items> > After that, you should not have wpa-supplicant in the store anymore.> > HTH!> >>>>>>>>>> Julien Lepiller:>>> Le 14 avril 2021 12:31:31 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit>> :>>>>> In particular, there are multiple>>>>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>>>> avahi.>>>>>>>> That doesnt address the issue im talking about, why guix remove>> doesnt>>>> recognize the package that number 1 , number 2 if the package will>>>> break>>>> something important guix should say that after processing the>> command>>>> guix remove x package then show warning message this x package is>>>> dependency of xyz which might break your system would you like to>>>> proceed? <- something like that.>>>>>> guix removc only operates on your user profile, which doesn't contain>> avahi. That's what it's telling you.>>>>>> You can check that you do not have avahi installed in your profile>> with>>>>>> guix package -l>>>>>> And that none of your installed packages depend on it:>>>>>> guix size `readlink -f ~/.guix-profile`>>>>>> Guix operates only on explicitely installed packages, which I think>> is much cleaner and allows it to be more predictable. Compare, if A>> depends on B and C, initially you have all three.>>>>>> apt install B then apt remove A -> nothing>>> apt remove A then apt install B -> only B>>>>>> guix install B then guix remove A -> B and C>>> guix remove A then guix install B -> B and C>>>>>> guix operates on explicitely installed packages, dependencies are>> implementation details. It just doesn't work like apt or other package>> managers. New tool, new usages.>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>>>>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it>> comes>>>>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely>>>>>>>> do you mean config.scm? if you need something type the command or>> where>>>>>>>> and i will bring it to you.>>>>>> Yes, I meant /etc/config.scm (well, by convention, as you can always>> create the file elsewhere). But I don't need it anymore, since I>> learned it's actually part of the default %desktop-services.>>>>>>>>>>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>>>> profile,>>>>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note>> that,>>>> if>>>>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>>>>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>>>>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>>>>> dependency.>>>>>>>> You dont consider that an issue when someone use guix remove x then>> ops>>>>>>>> guess what nothing indicate something can be done, and guess what no>>>> error message gonna tell you what the hell going on. Least can be>> said>>>> about this bad usability.>>>>>> It's not "no message", is it? I lust tried "guix remove hello", and I>> don't have hello in my profile. It told me (in red): error: package>> 'hello' not found in profile.>>>>>> Not sure how it could be more explicit.>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful :)>>>>>>>> Appreciated :)>>>>>>>> Julien Lepiller:>>>>> Le Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:46:19 +0000,>>>>> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> a écrit :>>>>>>>>>>> Hi There,>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw some packages installed by default with guix like>>>>>> wpa-supplicant and avahi..., But if i type 'guix remove av' and i>>>>>> press tab nothing will complete the word and if i type 'guix>> remove>>>>>> avahi' or 'guix remove wpa-supplicant' ... just give error>> message.>>>>>> (check the uploaded txt file)>>>>>>>>>> Guix has a different notion of "installed" and "not installed" from>>>>> other distros because of its model (and because it lets us use (but>>>> not>>>>> "install") incompatible packages). In particular, there are>> multiple>>>>> profiles, and each of them could contain avahi or a reference to>>>> avahi.>>>>> In your case, I think avahi comes from two places:>>>>>>>>>> First, guix itself depends on guile-avahi, which brings in avahi.>>>>> That's because substitution can use avahi to get substitutes from>>>> your>>>>> local network.>>>>>>>>>> Second, your operating-system declaration apparently is running>>>>> the avahi server. Since you didn't share it, I don't know if it>> comes>>>>> from a service dependency or if it's declared explicitely, but if>> you>>>>> don't want it to be running, that's where you'd remove it (either>>>>> remove the explicit service, or the dependent service (guix>>>> publish?))>>>>>>>>>> Avahi is added by the installer if you enable "Substitute server>>>>> discovery" in the installer.>>>>>>>>>> Similarly, wpa-supplicant is probably part of another profile, or>>>> maybe>>>>> declared in your config.scm. Once you change it, you should>>>> reconfigure>>>>> (guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm). This will not remove>> files>>>>> from the store, until you run guix gc.>>>>>>>>>> When you run "guix remove" as user, it only affects your user>>>> profile,>>>>> in which there is no avahi or wpa-supplicant package. Also note>> that,>>>> if>>>>> any of your user's profile had a dependency on avahi, "guix remove>>>>> avahi" would not have any effect on it either, because it's not>>>>> installed explicitely, it's only present in the store to satisfy a>>>>> dependency.>>>>>>>>>> You can find out about these dependencies with guix graph, for>>>> instance:>>>>>>>>>> guix graph -t references --path `readlink -f \>>>>> $HOME/.config/guix/current` `guix build avahi`>>>>>>>>>> /gnu/store/9yvb5kknnq8b1mrfsqaggrgjifk2mgs4-profile>>>>> /gnu/store/dy46rf8aknz4im7sjz89i9b7snqi1m8w-guix-f91e1046c>>>>> /gnu/store/szyzmhsxckvb0h7pdh9ags9apd1sch7m-guix-command>>>>> /gnu/store/zjpqr7m6j3cjk5l2sr81yxyg5ny4njy6-guix-module-union>>>>>>>>>>> /gnu/store/jawdw5ca459z8y3a6hcd5pd772zjrs93-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf>>>>> /gnu/store/gj0irsda1y0msawq8g1wfcgw7xcsxz2m-avahi-0.8>>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful :)>>>>>>>>>
B
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
e7a876ad-9a4b-93a2-009b-a868de009f9b@riseup.net
Great, I believe you got my message clearly thank you as well for the commands.
yes in debian if you want to remove libavahi it wont be removed (without breaking stuff), but avahi-daemon (if its installed) you can remove it with no issues so as wpa-supplicant,mesa..etc
Anyway you just got my message clearly and i appreciate that <f>.
Mark H Weaver:
Toggle quote (64 lines)> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:> >> > You seem to want it to do something different than it was intended to>> > do, although I'm not precisely sure what that is. Do you want it to try>> > to purge all copies of the given package from /gnu/store? If so, that>> > might require deleting (or modifying) older system generations and older>> > user profiles, which would interfere with rollback functionality.>>>> Isnt this the standard understanding of deleting a package whether in>> GNU/Linux or Windows or Mac? If user has the root rights he should be>> able to delete software x,> > The command in Guix that most closely matches what you seem to be asking> for is "guix gc --delete", which will try to delete a given set of store> items. In your original bug report, it looks like 'avahi' was one of> the things you were trying to remove, so I'll use that as an example:> > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---> mhw@jojen ~$ guix gc --delete /gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8> finding garbage collector roots...> guix gc: error: cannot delete path `/gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8' since it is still alive> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---> > If you get this error, you can use "guix gc --referrers" to find out> what's keeping it alive:> > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---> mhw@jojen ~$ guix gc --referrers /gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8> /gnu/store/…-geoclue-2.5.7> /gnu/store/…-gvfs-1.40.2> /gnu/store/…-pulseaudio-14.0> /gnu/store/…-cups-filters-1.27.4> /gnu/store/…-guile-avahi-0.4.0-1.6d43caf> /gnu/store/…-avahi-0.8> /gnu/store/…-cups-2.3.3> /gnu/store/…-grilo-plugins-0.3.11> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---> > So, it looks like I won't be able to remove avahi from my store, at> least not if I want to keep GNOME, CUPS, or Pulseaudio.> > For similar reasons, I can't remove Avahi from my Debian server either:> > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---> root@world:~# dpkg -r libavahi-client3> dpkg: dependency problems prevent removal of libavahi-client3:amd64:> libvirt0:amd64 depends on libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16).> libcups2:amd64 depends on libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16).> > dpkg: error processing package libavahi-client3:amd64 (--remove):> dependency problems - not removing> Errors were encountered while processing:> libavahi-client3:amd64> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---> > Anyway, I agree that it would be good to have a user-friendly way to ask> Guix why a given piece of software is in their store, and to help them> find ways to remove it, if possible. We have some tools to help with> this, e.g. "guix gc --referrers", "guix graph --type=reverse-package",> "guix graph --type=reverse-bag", and "guix graph --path", etc, but> there's plenty of room for improvement.> > Mark>
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(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
65da50b1-6ef7-84f1-248b-b1ef2b5ebb0f@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> I suggested two hints. What do you think of the second hint:
> > Hint: On Guix System, packages can defined in the operating system declaration. > These are not affected by "guix remove PACKAGES".
Yeah also this one is good, except user need to know "operating system declaration" beforehand but no issue anything better than the previous error message.
> I don't see what you are trying to show here.
Just showing error messages of other distros.
But anyway your hints are better than the default used one, At least user can ask what i should use instead of "guix remove packages", but not oh what is profile guix talking about what profile i should use...etc
I hope you got the idea im trying to make.
(fixing the error message is not the ideal solution, ideal solution is to have friendly control on these packages. but this is for sure help as well)
Maxime Devos:
Toggle quote (33 lines)> On Thu, 2021-04-15 at 09:37 +0000, bo0od wrote:>> > guix remove: error: package 'm17n-lib' not found in profile>> > Hint: All users have their own profiles. To remove packages from the>> profile>> > of the root user, run "sudo guix remove PACKAGES" or equivalent.>>>> yeah very nice one, except that "sudo guix remove package" doesnt work :(> > I suggested two hints. What do you think of the second hint:> > Hint: On Guix System, packages can defined in the operating system declaration.> These are not affected by "guix remove PACKAGES".> > I don't know if it applies to your exact situation though (not following> the discussion very closely).> >> This is how its done in debian/fedora, for e.g this is what debian error>> give if apt needs root rights to delete a package:>>>> "user@host:~$ apt remove hexchat>> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13:>> Permission denied)>> E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock>> (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?">>>> This is what it shows in Fedora: [...]> > In that case, my first hint would have been informative, no?> I don't see what you are trying to show here.> > Greetings,> Maxime.>
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Leo Famulari wrote on 16 Apr 05:41 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)
YHkHbWQwdYQb+qhu@jasmine.lan
On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 02:11:09AM +0000, bo0od wrote:
Toggle quote (7 lines)> My friend isnt this what im saying not friendly,bad usability,disaster...etc> > And i said to have maybe something like synapse which mean addressing> everything installed and user can just remove the packages by clicking on> them (or lets call it the GUI way of doing it) similar to the functionally> you showed:
The programs you are asking to remove are used internally by Guix.
You can't remove them with a simple command. You can't do that on otherLinux distros either.
For example, on Debian, I have /usr/bin/gpg:
------$ ls -l /usr/bin/gpg-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1046256 Aug 22 2019 /usr/bin/gpg------
Then I uninstall it:
------$ sudo apt-get remove gpg[...]$ ls -l /usr/bin/gpgls: cannot access '/usr/bin/gpg': No such file or directory-----
But, apt-get uses gpg too, to check package signatures. It still has itsown copy of gpg, so it still works. You can't remove it easily.
It's the same situation, and it's not a bug.
Closed
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(name . Leo Famulari)(address . leo@famulari.name)
1be9311f-9ae6-e96d-a966-f443da48146a@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)> But, apt-get uses gpg too, to check package signatures. It still has its
> own copy of gpg, so it still works. You can't remove it easily. > > It's the same situation, and it's not a bug.
what are you talking about? im talking about packages which are not essential like mesa , nouveau , wpa-supplicant...

Nevertheless about gpg in debian see:

user@host:~$ sudo apt remove gpgReading package lists... DoneBuilding dependency treeReading state information... DoneThe following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: dirmngr gnupg-l10n gnupg-utils gpg-agent gpgconf gpgsm libassuan0 libksba8 libldap-2.4-2 libldap-common libnpth0 libsasl2-2 libsasl2-modules-db pinentry-cursesUse 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.The following packages will be REMOVED: gnupg gpg gpg-wks-client gpg-wks-server0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.After this operation, 3,490 kB disk space will be freed.Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
user@host:~$ sudo apt remove gpg*Reading package lists... DoneBuilding dependency treeReading state information... DoneNote, selecting 'gpg-wks-client' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpg-wks-server' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpg' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgrt-tools' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgv-static' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgv' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgv-win32' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpg-agent' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpg-remailer' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgconf' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgsm' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgv1' for glob 'gpg*'Note, selecting 'gpgv2' for glob 'gpg*'Package 'gpgv1' is not installed, so not removedPackage 'gpgv-static' is not installed, so not removedPackage 'gpgv-win32' is not installed, so not removedPackage 'gpgv2' is not installed, so not removedPackage 'gpg-remailer' is not installed, so not removedPackage 'gpgrt-tools' is not installed, so not removedThe following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: conntrack dconf-cli ethtool gir1.2-glib-2.0 gnupg-l10n gnupg-utils imagemagick imagemagick-6-common imagemagick-6.q16 initscripts insserv keyboard-configuration libassuan0 libde265-0 libegl1-mesa libfftw3-double3 libfontenc1 libgirepository-1.0-1 libheif1 libksba8 libldap-2.4-2 libldap-common liblqr-1-0 libmagickcore-6.q16-6 libmagickwand-6.q16-6 libnpth0 libpython-stdlib libpython2-stdlib libpython2.7-minimal libpython2.7-stdlib libqubes-rpc-filecopy2 libqubesdb libsasl2-2 libsasl2-modules-db libxfont2 libxkbfile1 net-tools pinentry-curses python python-minimal python2 python2-minimal python2.7 python2.7-minimal python3-cffi-backend python3-daemon python3-dbus python3-gi python3-lockfile python3-qubesdb python3-six python3-xcffib python3-xdg qubesdb qubesdb-vm socat startpar sysv-rc tinyproxy tinyproxy-bin tor tor-geoipdb torsocks x11-xkb-utils x11-xserver-utils xdg-utils xen-utils-common xenstore-utils xinit xserver-common xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-input-qubes xserver-xorg-video-dummyqbsUse 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.The following packages will be REMOVED: apt apt-transport-https apt-transport-tor apt-utils dirmngr gnupg gpg gpg-agent gpg-wks-client gpg-wks-server gpgconf gpgsm gpgv qubes-core-agent qubes-core-agent-networking qubes-gui-agent qubes-vm-dependencies tasksel tasksel-dataWARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing! apt gpgv (due to apt)0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 19 to remove and 0 not upgraded.After this operation, 15.5 MB disk space will be freed.You are about to do something potentially harmful.To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!' ?]
Please reopen.

Leo Famulari:
Toggle quote (34 lines)> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 02:11:09AM +0000, bo0od wrote:>> My friend isnt this what im saying not friendly,bad usability,disaster...etc>>>> And i said to have maybe something like synapse which mean addressing>> everything installed and user can just remove the packages by clicking on>> them (or lets call it the GUI way of doing it) similar to the functionally>> you showed:> > The programs you are asking to remove are used internally by Guix.> > You can't remove them with a simple command. You can't do that on other> Linux distros either.> > For example, on Debian, I have /usr/bin/gpg:> > ------> $ ls -l /usr/bin/gpg> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1046256 Aug 22 2019 /usr/bin/gpg> ------> > Then I uninstall it:> > ------> $ sudo apt-get remove gpg> [...]> $ ls -l /usr/bin/gpg> ls: cannot access '/usr/bin/gpg': No such file or directory> -----> > But, apt-get uses gpg too, to check package signatures. It still has its> own copy of gpg, so it still works. You can't remove it easily.> > It's the same situation, and it's not a bug.>
Closed
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Leo Famulari wrote on 16 Apr 09:23 +0200
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)
YHk7j/a7kEfr0EZ/@jasmine.lan
On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 04:37:13AM +0000, bo0od wrote:
Toggle quote (2 lines)> Please reopen.
It can be reopened by sending a message containing "reopen 47748" to<control@debbugs.gnu.org>.
https://debbugs.gnu.org/server-control.html
I still think that "Guix doesn't work like another OS" isn't a bug.
Closed
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Mark H Weaver wrote on 16 Apr 16:52 +0200
(address . 47748@debbugs.gnu.org)
87eefagu35.fsf@netris.org
Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:
Toggle quote (9 lines)> Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:>>> The manual suggests modify-services in some places:>>>> (modify-services %desktop-services>> (delete avahi-service-type))>> I don't see how this can work.
For the record: Julien was right. 'modify-services' was enhanced tosupport deleting services about 2 days before Julien made this post, andI didn't yet know about it. I checked my own local copy of the Guix gitrepo, which was a few days old, and it didn't occur to me that thefunctionality had been added so recently. Sorry for the confusion.
Mark
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