Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache

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3 participants
  • bo0od
  • Léo Le Bouter
  • Ludovic Courtès
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bo0od
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normal
B
B
bo0od wrote on 7 Apr 2021 07:13
(address . bug-guix@gnu.org)
2b6d36dc-13b2-9b56-5f79-3ab63317a8a1@riseup.net
Hi There,

According to my communications on IRC i see that guix doesnt want to
have an offline installation, Which mean it need internet connection
available at the installation process.

This is fine except when user having either static-ip or using VM which
doesnt give readable network interface to the distro inside it (falling
into same category of static-ip).

solving/giving:

- Adding static IP and so as manually installing is not well documented
and need knowledge and skills (very faraway to be handled by new
users)check #47630

- Easiness of modifying things e.g instead of using tens of commands it
will be replaced with couple of clicks and for surely less typing
(compare gparted vs parted steps or network-manager vs ip commands and
so on). You can checkout many distros whos giving this opportunity like
nixos, trisquel/triskel, mint...etc

- Give trial usage of the distro for the user before installing it

...etc

And any user who doesnt want GUI he can switch to tty for commands or
textual installation. (The image of the guix will be bigger for surely,
But as they say the bigger the better)

ThX!
L
L
Ludovic Courtès wrote on 15 Apr 2021 11:09
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)(address . 47631@debbugs.gnu.org)
875z0ndicy.fsf@gnu.org
Hi,

bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:

Toggle quote (4 lines)
> According to my communications on IRC i see that guix doesnt want to
> have an offline installation, Which mean it need internet connection
> available at the installation process.

More specifically, we cannot guarantee that an off-line installation
would work because it depends on the software and services you’ll
choose.

Toggle quote (10 lines)
> This is fine except when user having either static-ip or using VM
> which doesnt give readable network interface to the distro inside it
> (falling into same category of static-ip).
>
> solving/giving:
>
> - Adding static IP and so as manually installing is not well
> documented and need knowledge and skills (very faraway to be handled
> by new users)check #47630

Right, this one’s already filed.

Toggle quote (6 lines)
> - Easiness of modifying things e.g instead of using tens of commands
> it will be replaced with couple of clicks and for surely less typing
> (compare gparted vs parted steps or network-manager vs ip commands and
> so on). You can checkout many distros whos giving this opportunity
> like nixos, trisquel/triskel, mint...etc

Did you try the graphical installation?


It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
the issues you describe.

Toggle quote (2 lines)
> - Give trial usage of the distro for the user before installing it

Did you try the live VM image?


I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable. Please file issues
focused on specific problems.

Thanks,
Ludo’.
L
L
Ludovic Courtès wrote on 15 Apr 2021 11:09
control message for bug #47631
(address . control@debbugs.gnu.org)
874kg7dicn.fsf@gnu.org
tags 47631 notabug
close 47631
quit
B
Re: bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
(name . Ludovic Courtès)(address . ludo@gnu.org)(address . 47631@debbugs.gnu.org)
41cbd278-576e-f642-5a57-96b3c19241b6@riseup.net
Toggle quote (1 lines)
> Did you try the graphical installation?
>
>
> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
> the issues you describe.

Yes i do know this, But whats different between what guix is doing and
others are doing (examples i gave above), They give you access to GUI of
their distro without internet and from within this live GUI access to
the distro you can configure the internet/partition..etc (easily
specially for first time users) using GUI tools without internet (you
can even test the distro without the need to install it)

Thats what im requesting not what is currently happening.

> Did you try the live VM image?
>

What? where?

> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable. Please file issues
> focused on specific problems.

Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc


If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian is
doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.

Otherwise guix is useless case specially for new users in places where
internet need to be configured manually (adding IP,Gateway,Netmask...
manually).

Ludovic Courtès:
Toggle quote (49 lines)
> Hi,
>
> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:
>
>> According to my communications on IRC i see that guix doesnt want to
>> have an offline installation, Which mean it need internet connection
>> available at the installation process.
>
> More specifically, we cannot guarantee that an off-line installation
> would work because it depends on the software and services you’ll
> choose.
>
>> This is fine except when user having either static-ip or using VM
>> which doesnt give readable network interface to the distro inside it
>> (falling into same category of static-ip).
>>
>> solving/giving:
>>
>> - Adding static IP and so as manually installing is not well
>> documented and need knowledge and skills (very faraway to be handled
>> by new users)check #47630
>
> Right, this one’s already filed.
>
>> - Easiness of modifying things e.g instead of using tens of commands
>> it will be replaced with couple of clicks and for surely less typing
>> (compare gparted vs parted steps or network-manager vs ip commands and
>> so on). You can checkout many distros whos giving this opportunity
>> like nixos, trisquel/triskel, mint...etc
>
> Did you try the graphical installation?
>
> https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
>
> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
> the issues you describe.
>
>> - Give trial usage of the distro for the user before installing it
>
> Did you try the live VM image?
>
> https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/
>
> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable. Please file issues
> focused on specific problems.
>
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.
>
L
L
Ludovic Courtès wrote on 15 Apr 2021 16:30
(name . bo0od)(address . bo0od@riseup.net)(address . 47631@debbugs.gnu.org)
87k0p38vse.fsf@gnu.org
Hi,

bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:

Toggle quote (14 lines)
>> Did you try the graphical installation?
>>
>> https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
>>
>> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
>> the issues you describe.
>
> Yes i do know this, But whats different between what guix is doing and
> others are doing (examples i gave above), They give you access to GUI
> of their distro without internet and from within this live GUI access
> to the distro you can configure the internet/partition..etc (easily
> specially for first time users) using GUI tools without internet (you
> can even test the distro without the need to install it)

Letting users use GUI (or non-GUI) tools by themselves doesn’t look
appealing to me. We made the choice to provide a guided installer,
similar to that of Debian and other distros, such that users don’t have
to figure out by themselves that they need to run gparted, follow steps,
etc.

Toggle quote (8 lines)
> Thats what im requesting not what is currently happening.
>
>> Did you try the live VM image?
>>
>> https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/
>
> What? where?

Search for “QEMU”.

Toggle quote (6 lines)
>> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable. Please file issues
>> focused on specific problems.
>
> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc

I contributed to NixOS long ago, and unless things have changed, it
doesn’t have a guided installer.

Toggle quote (4 lines)
> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
> is doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.

So I guess your primary request is about giving access to the GUIs.
That comes at a cost (the ISO is already quite big) but that’s something
we could consider.

For now, our focus is on improving the guided installer itself.

Thanks,
Ludo’.
L
L
Léo Le Bouter wrote on 16 Apr 2021 00:31
(address . 47631@debbugs.gnu.org)
5c4d723578eee3cbf68dea281ba1db03e4ea2a24.camel@zaclys.net
On Thu, 2021-04-15 at 10:00 +0000, bo0od wrote:
Toggle quote (15 lines)
> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc
>
>
> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
> is
> doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.
>
> Otherwise guix is useless case specially for new users in places
> where
> internet need to be configured manually (adding
> IP,Gateway,Netmask...
> manually).

GNU Guix right now is not for novice users, things progress at their
own pace, based on available contributor time. Everyone realizes the
steep learning curve of GNU Guix. There is many issues to solve before
trying to make GNU Guix more accessible IMO. Be patient and things are
only going to improve. The best way to accelerate this as you ask is to
dive in and contribute, if you can, please do!
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B
(name . Ludovic Courtès)(address . ludo@gnu.org)(address . 47631@debbugs.gnu.org)
49641a6e-880a-0bbb-2794-053f348d779d@riseup.net
Toggle quote (2 lines)
> For now, our focus is on improving the guided installer itself.

Ok as you wish why not, But please dont give something less than what
Debian installer providing.

Ludovic Courtès:
Toggle quote (56 lines)
> Hi,
>
> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:
>
>>> Did you try the graphical installation?
>>>
>>> https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
>>>
>>> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
>>> the issues you describe.
>>
>> Yes i do know this, But whats different between what guix is doing and
>> others are doing (examples i gave above), They give you access to GUI
>> of their distro without internet and from within this live GUI access
>> to the distro you can configure the internet/partition..etc (easily
>> specially for first time users) using GUI tools without internet (you
>> can even test the distro without the need to install it)
>
> Letting users use GUI (or non-GUI) tools by themselves doesn’t look
> appealing to me. We made the choice to provide a guided installer,
> similar to that of Debian and other distros, such that users don’t have
> to figure out by themselves that they need to run gparted, follow steps,
> etc.
>
>> Thats what im requesting not what is currently happening.
>>
>>> Did you try the live VM image?
>>>
>>> https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/
>>
>> What? where?
>
> Search for “QEMU”.
>
>>> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable. Please file issues
>>> focused on specific problems.
>>
>> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
>> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc
>
> I contributed to NixOS long ago, and unless things have changed, it
> doesn’t have a guided installer.
>
>> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
>> is doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
>> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.
>
> So I guess your primary request is about giving access to the GUIs.
> That comes at a cost (the ISO is already quite big) but that’s something
> we could consider.
>
> For now, our focus is on improving the guided installer itself.
>
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.
>
B
(address . 47631@debbugs.gnu.org)
c30d6d8d-dfcb-9562-a5ad-d89dd105c38f@riseup.net
Toggle quote (2 lines)
> GNU Guix right now is not for novice users

Yeah i can see that clearly.

> The best way to accelerate this as you ask is to
> dive in and contribute, if you can, please do!

Sure i will try, Thanks alot <f>

Léo Le Bouter:
Toggle quote (23 lines)
> On Thu, 2021-04-15 at 10:00 +0000, bo0od wrote:
>> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
>> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc
>>
>>
>> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
>> is
>> doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
>> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.
>>
>> Otherwise guix is useless case specially for new users in places
>> where
>> internet need to be configured manually (adding
>> IP,Gateway,Netmask...
>> manually).
>
> GNU Guix right now is not for novice users, things progress at their
> own pace, based on available contributor time. Everyone realizes the
> steep learning curve of GNU Guix. There is many issues to solve before
> trying to make GNU Guix more accessible IMO. Be patient and things are
> only going to improve. The best way to accelerate this as you ask is to
> dive in and contribute, if you can, please do!
>
?