From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 10 12:00:49 2023 Received: (at 60847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2023 17:00:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pag6q-0002RP-Jp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:00:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52384) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pag6o-0002R6-61 for 60847@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:00:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pag6g-0005zi-FI; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:00:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=kh6oOur036BbVM/4BN2ldIH/yNRDFvK/9MUNZDOG09k=; b=a8WJwUNIzprnti/lhiUr Hwj6fK6QWhaC0M7wqWFjW0gX3nnbuMK0zG7Vla3Jum4C+jz/On9s4F9yI6VKVw4f7JCtOojBxlY9J 7v0mOFthMTl+Ca6vanUFN4AmA5+bllMELylrvQ5TM9rmk7cm/BdVoVrIsajlkMyUaWtWLEanpKh+C +LAp01Zs8puuSOqOpPUeoDub8mSJAvpK5OIT3QcZP0bo1SSHebc6fgJ+1aR+Z7FweyFY6ZuHeoSl+ M694Xslduhh5hgzznoDW5iE2s3HVwbVWO+cX2YWLln3WLIkeT+C8+BwGnICZdSjzL1TpGdleLYDng nhTWRvnkJII+vg==; Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pag6f-0000pl-CB; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:00:37 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Re: bug#60847: [PATCH] Enable cross-compilation for the pyproject-build-system. References: <20230123133217.318-1-maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <20230123133217.318-2-maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87zg8p7qvw.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87jzzsy7qt.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7p19e6w.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8j8r8jt.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: =?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A9cadi?= 20 =?utf-8?Q?Vent=C3=B4se?= an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution=2C?= jour du Cordeau X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:00:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87v8j8r8jt.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:21:42 -0500") Message-ID: <87a60kh77y.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60847 Cc: Josselin Poiret , Christopher Baines , Simon Tournier , Mathieu Othacehe , 60847@debbugs.gnu.org, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice , Lars-Dominik Braun , Ricardo Wurmus , jgart X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Maxim, Maxim Cournoyer skribis: [...] >>>>> + (let ((builder-name (procedure-name (bag-build bag)))) >>>>> + (if (or (bag-target bag) >>>>> + (eq? 'pyproject-build builder-name)) >>>>> + (bag->cross-derivation bag) >>>> >>>> This one part is a showstopper to me, for two reasons: >>>> >>>> 1. We cannot rely on =E2=80=98procedure-name=E2=80=99 (it=E2=80=99s = a debugging aid and it=E2=80=99s >>>> not guaranteed to return something useful). >>>> >>>> 2. Special-casing build systems here is not okay: the bag and build >>>> system abstractions exist to maintain separation of concerns. >>>> >>>> I understand there=E2=80=99s an actual bug to fix and the desire to fi= x a more >>>> common issue, but I think this one approach is not the way forward. >>>> >>>> I hope that makes sense! >>> >>> I agree this is not "pretty", but it would be a "temporary" kludge until >> >> To make sure there=E2=80=99s no misunderstanding, I think that=E2=80=99s= not okay even >> as a =E2=80=9Ctemporary kludge=E2=80=9D (I=E2=80=99m not against tempora= ry kludges in general, >> I=E2=80=99ve done my share of that ;-), but this would be way too brittl= e.) > > "way too brittle" is a strong warning :-). It is; I=E2=80=99m objecting to this change. > I don't understand what is > so brittle about it? It's not like we change the build system names > often. I have little to add to what I wrote above: procedure names don=E2=80=99t m= ean anything, especially with higher-order functions, and separation of concerns is an important design principle. I=E2=80=99m speaking with 15+ years of experience with Guile; I don=E2=80= =99t mind being challenged, it=E2=80=99s healthy, but I think we also need to recognize the expertise of each other and encounter each other halfway. [...] >> Perhaps one suggestion would be: start the native-inputs/inputs change >> on a new branch, for all the build systems (or at least the main >> ones), and then try to build the =E2=80=98core=E2=80=99 subset (which in= cludes >> cross-compilation) to get an idea of the kind of code simplification >> opportunities as well as issues that arise. I feel like it=E2=80=99s ha= rd to >> anticipate the impact of such a change without actually trying. > > I can do this; the exercise would be similar to what I've done for > pyproject-build-system, where I was able to build complex packages (both > natively and cross-compiled) with the new same-bag representation > change, but to a larger scale. It's more work, which is why I would > have preferred to contain its scope to get started, but the changes were > easy, IIRC. Yes, I agree it=E2=80=99s more work, but it=E2=80=99s dissimilar in that yo= u=E2=80=99ll be confronted with tons of weird cases, some of which we can already anticipate, but probably others we=E2=80=99ll probably be surprised to disc= over. > Basically, it forces us to review all the (assoc-ref inputs > "package-name") or (search-input-file inputs "file") procedure calls and > remove the assumption that native-inputs are also inputs for native > builds (that'll fix multiple cross-compilation bugs at the same time, so > it's a good thing to do anyway). I do hope it=E2=80=99ll be this simple, but I just can=E2=80=99t tell. Thank you, Ludo=E2=80=99.