From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 13 14:23:15 2022 Received: (at 57878) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2022 18:23:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34922 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oj2rT-0001Hm-85 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:23:15 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f65.google.com ([209.85.218.65]:38447) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oj2rS-0001Ha-1g for 57878@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:23:14 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f65.google.com with SMTP id fy4so5732275ejc.5 for <57878@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 11:23:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:user-agent:content-transfer-encoding:references :in-reply-to:date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GAvaw0J7x1dLdh6L3EuOahpw8j1Gu2nWcw4Uhu+J6jA=; b=Kn4wb4dSu891LpOOvzRNO1Et0Wl2CYHSc5TKT5abE6c/CsBhwpX7dWsafg+vQb1m6Z P+mJnpZoikRpYCSfdjPDoKBAvy8Fu20Hv/4a1YIcmdSJYDaXK9ABE5oT8+IDEgjN4PzF +zz2x5qyyMyLCKJIv25zDtMwyEDpKvA4NEhm9W0yARggJjgSIkOcRp1xmcv58MmErdKT bIidWvneTX1uPwprZvPbZc172A5Qlf3BLk5hg+xCrfLmLTI+A2pixIcMIJVXMmVPRRv1 +b5PBYmGmIKv9FMM4e8w6hUxFGivH7x957CdUuILvACCfHf0IHwVNEEtj5JAvWo808nA XeYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:user-agent:content-transfer-encoding:references :in-reply-to:date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GAvaw0J7x1dLdh6L3EuOahpw8j1Gu2nWcw4Uhu+J6jA=; b=5W9rMsD6ROtIGtFDe4IcUx0ZFxYgkg+Z2atr+v8uy+xRtzoyL4YsAt1LqZRcRhpmK5 ovvVNABmNVSrQognAcO4HFbk02aYZl11fT9oPW25quZmH+vYriAngzbsu7fG3h0kst3S 5q7Bl7bETdZFjyC8JixwX44bah8QIJZ0jqawlUDvlBBRVOCAarl3mPpzt/lzvd0+sDFc ZSRCkeYEMWmMZjqwpERQDai+sU5TANfyQROLBIaEMk3D6J3g9J3EFy8YNloYPz3cBfxN /4HyBM7qcvKxdrP43ZJN+u/hhUjt4fs+ozhBg1wxP/zqVB6Cl/Iud7wvdPOIT8xKSXBu UqxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1mrmD3gVzs4Gv/SLVQMd7AZDaYLwJGlarpxd7iqvxhvxPncLg5 re7ujRITfAL4F/joDYmMuDU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7QozILes7vnhwvVfAI/2G+7ruMF+45IBxnp4X2hnp20OJ+mrzdIHefLBotlivMjY4JG5EsNA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:9b86:b0:73d:72cf:72af with SMTP id dd6-20020a1709069b8600b0073d72cf72afmr767084ejc.440.1665685388212; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 11:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lumine.fritz.box (85-127-52-93.dsl.dynamic.surfer.at. [85.127.52.93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v3-20020a1709063bc300b0077a201f6d1esm223086ejf.87.2022.10.13.11.23.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 13 Oct 2022 11:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <603e94929389d6d4c61939fb3a7251ea74d632ae.camel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#57878: Minimal reproducible setup From: Liliana Marie Prikler To: Max Brieiev Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 20:23:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87wn943w9p.fsf@gmail.com> References: <12eb8b51fe6c9508517e19bdeed923c389cafe1f.camel@gmail.com> <6873fe86a05a548e7427d2de7df04a27a967713a.camel@gmail.com> <87wn943w9p.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57878 Cc: Konrad Hinsen , "Thompson, David" , 57878@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Am Donnerstag, dem 13.10.2022 um 12:31 +0300 schrieb Max Brieiev: > > I think this reasoning really falls flat in presence of any non- > > Emacs package manager.=C2=A0 Like, obviously wanting to natively compil= e > > packages managed by (dpkg, rpm, pacman, emerge, guix), but not > > natively compiling a random elisp script you just downloaded from > > the web is a legitimate use case. >=20 > If security is a concern, you should not load random Elisp in the > first place. It is much easier to just directly run harmful elisp, > then to exploit native compiler, which stays silent until after you > evaluate some (possibly harmful) elisp. The nature of compiled code being compiled makes it much easier to exploit, however. Assume you have a genuine dash.el, but a malicious person delivers you a dash.eln with some backdoor. Unless you know how to read x86 assembly, you won't debug the latter, whereas you could reasonably find the former if you're an Elisp hacker. This is typically not a concern for Guix, where the challenge mechanism provides tools to highlight that something is going wrong, but it might be a concern for traditional distros. Then again, the same applies to bytecode too, and here as well the solution is to typically use a trusted package manager. Cheers