From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 11 23:25:15 2021 Received: (at 51696) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2021 04:25:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42861 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mlO7m-0007Jn-Qt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 23:25:15 -0500 Received: from mail-4018.proton.ch ([185.70.40.18]:33230) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mlO7k-0007JM-D4 for 51696@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 23:25:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 04:25:03 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rixotstudio.cz; s=protonmail2; t=1636691104; bh=5VX6zAkySXE9FyeE7xBfZ6x1oUYL9Vj9hQ3LL8qf76E=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=10s0uNUAO9ED533R6yaaQbuGPGzO0Px6gTF4KKgVwLHbMT6tVJBXasLo3JN72TzvS 6CBc3QM+4KPTFZpxSumKJEw3AhdwQS3ybBRRC2DVEWt4PdU15NY1LJDOqm+tv1McRk QuGhFmOjZ8BLMDBHHDUuEMrkZfG3xMc8geYpVv7qLIwikl30OOlmnsj88SbIx0LHZn 5S9CyvmM53vuENdjS13gzjDMGg2VgZ78PKVdDyJ/ybqGulOQrtgq7fyFlwqfM9Y9uw unL597oIdGHpL2BS86UXdsgVTTOPe2aQWi6QQOLjfY//G/NGq+uSs/GpJis4S0ib/G zPuz4ZST5SITQ== To: Maxim Cournoyer From: Jacob Hrbek Subject: Re: bug#51696: Request: Adopt the unofficial GUIX community on Matrix Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87o86qqcm3.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87fss5udj9.fsf@netris.org> <87o86qqcm3.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="------b24ae89d3e9b533341e041ab16d39ad40935ad87ab51c7a23fb979b1523a7ac2"; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51696 Cc: Mark H Weaver , "support@matrix.org" , 51696@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jacob Hrbek Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------b24ae89d3e9b533341e041ab16d39ad40935ad87ab51c7a23fb979b1523a7ac2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------68c607c5c2c8c5c6cb526c30ce900102 -----------------------68c607c5c2c8c5c6cb526c30ce900102 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 > What is the difference between a Matrix space and a Matrix channel? -- M= axim In the analogy of files and directories: Matrix space is a directory for c= hannels. (see attachment matrix-space.png) In the image you can see matrix space called GNU Guix (unofficiality discl= osed in the description) containing channel #guix #guile #guix-offtopic #g= uix-wiki which are bridged to libera.chat with Guix System.. channel on Ma= trix > From my memory the reality is that most of the clients are not quite the= re yet... -- Maxim That is not my experience I suggest you to try them again and be specific = about the issues so that they can be investigated. > To really be in full control, ideally we'd have a Shepherd service to ad= minister it. Is this something you'd be motivated to work on? -- Maxim I need matrix homeserver on Guix myself so it would align with my work whe= n I figure out how to maintain a cluster of computers using public reposit= ory which CI/CD calls guix commands for push-based deployment which should= be any day now. > Moderation is something that I'm a bit worried about; at least speaking = for myself I'd want to continue doing it from IRC and it'd need to sync to= Matrix transparently, not the other way around. Is this possible? -- Max= im I am not qualified to answer that as I don't do cross-protocol moderation,= CC Matrix support -- Jacob "Kreyren" Hrbek Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original M= essage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Friday, November 12th, 2021 at 3:25 AM, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > Hi Jacob, > = > I think Mark had valid concerns about control. > = > Jacob Hrbek kreyren@rixotstudio.cz writes: > = > > My motivation for this proposal is to make GNU Guix more accessible > > = > > and user-friendly so that I can get my team to use it painlessly to > > = > > organize the work as I currently use NiXOS where nixlang is giving me > > = > > anxiety and it's too limited to my liking. > > = > > I prefer zero trust model so I am happy with transferring the matrix s= pace to the chosen GNU representative. > > = > > About the channel I sent a message to the owner and waiting for a repl= y. > = > What is the difference between a Matrix space and a Matrix channel? > = > > About matrix I am proposing to run our own homeserver that GNU Guix ha= ve full control over. > > = > > I helped Ian Kelling with the implementation for FSF when they were mo= ving off of Freenode so i assume that we can just fork the implementation = or adapt it in GNU guile? > > = > > Note: FSF decided to not move on matrix as one of it's clients is > > = > > using Google's reCAPTCHA for registration > > = > > (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/3220) and is > > = > > allegedly using electron.. FWIW i never understood the reasoning as > > = > > the homeserver does not depend on the client and there are multiple > > = > > alternatives (https://matrix.org/clients). > = > From my memory the reality is that most of the clients are not quite > = > there yet, so to get a good experience one must use the official web > = > client (Element) or the Android one, both of which pose freedom > = > challenges (is the JavaScript tagged to run in GNU LibreJS?). The > = > desktop client is also web based, probably unpackagHopefully > = > that changed in the last couple years. I remember trying the (abandoned > = > then) Emacs-based client and also the Weechat client. I ended up not > = > submitting the package to Guix, since it was too buggy (using 100% of > = > CPU, very slow to refresh, and had other annoyances I forgot). > = > > About bridges they are self-hosted (https://matrix.org/bridges) so GNU > > = > > Guix would be in full control over them, but some > > = > > e.g. https://t2bot.io provide it for free to the general public > > = > > without a guaranteed uptime. > = > To really be in full control, ideally we'd have a Shepherd service to > = > administer it. Is this something you'd be motivated to work on? > = > > I believe it also answers the question about moderating? There are > > = > > also moderation bots (https://matrix.org/bots/) such as mjolnil > > = > > https://github.com/matrix-org/mjolnir that afaik can be configured > > = > > that if user is banned on matrix that it will issue the ban across all > > = > > bridges and if needed the space. > = > Moderation is something that I'm a bit worried about; at least speaking > = > for myself I'd want to continue doing it from IRC and it'd need to sync > = > to Matrix transparently, not the other way around. Is this possible? > = > Thanks, > = > Maxim -----------------------68c607c5c2c8c5c6cb526c30ce900102 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; filename="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc"; name="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc"; name="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tDQpWZXJzaW9uOiBPcGVuUEdQLmpz IHY0LjEwLjEwDQpDb21tZW50OiBodHRwczovL29wZW5wZ3Bqcy5vcmcNCg0KeGpNRVlBbDNGaFlK S3dZQkJBSGFSdzhCQVFkQVFLQXBtZFI4dEc5YUtFZHh3SEovWktPMkN2Wk1SV1B0DQpCTk5HcUpV aHAyTE5MMnR5WlhseVpXNUFjbWw0YjNSemRIVmthVzh1WTNvZ1BHdHlaWGx5Wlc1QWNtbDQNCmIz UnpkSFZrYVc4dVkzbyt3bzhFRUJZS0FDQUZBbUFKZHhZR0N3a0hDQU1DQkJVSUNnSUVGZ0lCQUFJ Wg0KQVFJYkF3SWVBUUFoQ1JDdDAzMFVxMEw4cVJZaEJCWjMyNEtUaktobGM0RWpCNjNUZlJTclF2 eXA1N1FBDQovMHRsYmRuQ0l6cmVLWG12VzJYU1lYekFKb3RKZHhDekUrWEFUTStxUERLekFRQ2Ni SHA3eXc2K0FybmcNCmVTdEdGbi9vbGh4VFBkcHU2NDFDTEdpZ1BtRW9CYzQ0QkdBSmR4WVNDaXNH QVFRQmwxVUJCUUVCQjBEYQ0KaUkzalFmU29pM0RaNC9OZm14R2RzUnN2OS9CcU1nVzVqNmpkQnFr eUlBTUJDQWZDZUFRWUZnZ0FDUVVDDQpZQWwzRmdJYkRBQWhDUkN0MDMwVXEwTDhxUlloQkJaMzI0 S1RqS2hsYzRFakI2M1RmUlNyUXZ5cEhjRUINCkFPUXhTL0ovVU0wZWU4azJqYmxpV2QvUTBJZCtY OFVIQlhoeXFWUmMyMnFyQVFETEhjVzk3V1FiU0pGbw0KMTlrd3Q3ME95SGVwRjZMV3BERDBQdUlT WkQ2SUNnPT0NCj05a1pnDQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tDQo= -----------------------68c607c5c2c8c5c6cb526c30ce900102-- --------b24ae89d3e9b533341e041ab16d39ad40935ad87ab51c7a23fb979b1523a7ac2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wnUEARYKAAYFAmGN7I0AIQkQrdN9FKtC/KkWIQQWd9uCk4yoZXOBIwet030U q0L8qSNtAQCZzcRGAyyqR70ksnoxDTskefYefkdlcTb2JLagzRoy7wD/XleU vJwjUhHyCw7ZokXt3u+1YkgBghhswLcMJzm81QY= =o2ja -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------b24ae89d3e9b533341e041ab16d39ad40935ad87ab51c7a23fb979b1523a7ac2--