From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 03:32:26 2021 Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 07:32:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42518 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lsKbZ-0006JR-VX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 03:32:26 -0400 Received: from flashner.co.il ([178.62.234.194]:45156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lsKbX-0006JC-KL for 48924@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 03:32:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [31.210.177.125]) by flashner.co.il (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C9532400CD; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 07:32:17 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 10:31:19 +0300 From: Efraim Flashner To: Leo Prikler Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Efraim Flashner , Leo Prikler , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 48924@debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O References: <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@student.tugraz.at> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@gnu.org> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@student.tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@student.tugraz.at> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 48924@debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 07:11:18PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Am Freitag, den 11.06.2021, 18:39 +0200 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: > > > This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I > > > think > > > that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be > > > it, > > > that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can > > > *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that > > > the > > > latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful > > > linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. > >=20 > > Given the maintenance cost, we=E2=80=99d need a more convincing argumen= t than > > =E2=80=9Cshould be usable=E2=80=9D. :-) > >=20 > > So it seems to me that we=E2=80=99re done with it as far as inclusion i= n Guix > > is concerned. Thoughts? > >=20 > > It=E2=80=99s typically a situation where an external channel is more > > appropriate, IMO. > I'm definitely leaning towards not including it as-is/perhaps having it > in an external channel as well, but I don't think "high maintenance" > should generally be a deterrent against a functioning package (or > rather the only reason to keep a package from being included). Guix > already has packages, that I would consider to be of higher > maintenance, e.g. GNOME, and I do think it would help Guix users if > (parts of) systemd became a viable option. I am simply doubting the > functionality of this package as it currently exists. >=20 > That said, I don't think myself to be in a place to make accurate > judgements about entry requirements. I suggested =E2=80=9Cshould be usab= le=E2=80=9D as > a bare minimum because it seemed easy to convey. There are also other > things to consider, like coding style, adherence to packaging > guidelines, etc. with maintainability somewhere among them, but I can't > really phrase all of those well into a simple sentence. I also think > that some reviewer should be able to take an already functioning > package description and perform cosmetic changes to transform it into > one better suited for Guix, though that might be a bit of a > controversial statement. >=20 > Regards, > Leo >=20 I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high maintenance and no one likes having to update them. One thing that I've noticed with elogind is that it doesn't interact will with systemd-logind on other machines. Any loginctl command normally fails because the version we have looks in /var/lib/elogind and systemd uses /var/lib/systemd. It would also be useful to figure out how to run user level systemd services, likely using systemd itself, for those who are interested in doing so. I've heard that systemd is modular, in that at compile time it's possible to choose which modules to build. Perhaps we can build a subset which are actually useful for us? --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=90=D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D = =D7=A4=D7=9C=D7=A9=D7=A0=D7=A8 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmDFtEYACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1EKbxAArfWqwXlvjGGnNtnAavmnPtFmhAeWPsshxClOo8HP40eeS3OXG7znm4+f hqFlZdaP47iPawXQJq8Xvm6b0gBaGfVed5gC0Sfa5BUP1FOCmJjcXKovkjU7UHz1 d4ej5izw6Cw3RD67n8Q94rleirfsHMVwGD9nrD2Wml7Z2TDvlsphk2vdLOnPYH9V kV72wTO2JX2enyijoMCRv1MEmkQZPs6KXqq2dLu8Ysd85QLBWbhCjN8RVfbObNM5 r7G0crg6Ee7Uy20kZT1KGYWema8G29X3QIV8XF8XIybcQdC09ePZGZU51YiSdoju DZ1koLUqh/iL05+8yDIN+tBKKDkdBIZOuWiUc3BOEGRrxFH+LNAnYVCTiGe7LVx9 Pm2vM7DXY4fW9H1KcoXacgXkZdgExjZPyDke+CxAHXBhdnQmwBfxBAxOC4aoyCNF yg69+TDW8SAroLyIm9QZ+YXJPrv0mfMWee7qN01tKOeyvOk91CKtg8t2tkyQi6Pr Se1YndWaLbHQkWLwg9JiQl6TFRuS8AGEaq/t/Sk7+3rNEiskALYMYFhgGm6SvVF6 wfrrkBz+vV21/rPufZ3Eq7/x/FdP53I4svpYO1Gt9iq8gtASWERzcdQxAhagNm+x j6zjDeeGH0G8OulWgRGQEKKAfyyUnTPY1GESVfw3n8WJ3naMurA= =M6RO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS--