From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 13 12:32:38 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 May 2020 16:32:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59205 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYuJC-0007Xo-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:32:38 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:52638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYuJA-0007Xg-Rj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:32:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYuJA-0003X3-I3 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:32:36 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:33631) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYuJ9-0001xJ-Gd for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:32:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1589387545; bh=NGQdy241E+WbTB9hE4YWdEop8ltYByQW69ImUQF1u74=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=Ry7Gqg3/QOcFEFiYN4X69n79be09Lfdl4o3TE+yvTWDYgvU0ci1AVKIuFDUWZ9IhP PLZmMYDgKUH17siIUJmkNAJONQHd/MfA4tQxqrwzeIQfo+CHk3tbrtEImPOh/hYEnI qwRZ2pdHZpw5ZjRL5sKek4xHmTngRc4CZtJbx/oc= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([84.165.26.28]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MvKbj-1jHmzg2Xsv-00rGCw; Wed, 13 May 2020 18:32:25 +0200 References: <6171889.DvuYhMxLoT@cherry> <1804825.CQOukoFCf9@cherry> <5565734.MhkbZ0Pkbq@cherry> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.4; emacs 26.3 From: Arne Babenhauserheide To: Tom Zander Subject: Re: bug#40549: More usability issues: In-reply-to: <5565734.MhkbZ0Pkbq@cherry> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:32:24 +0200 Message-ID: <87zhabx0br.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:EJYpS4NETSpwQik03hBtXIr0rLUDbIME33PNgE/uKW0MwFiVU3E ntISJOKTneYvbrnrzSK3Bxvx52w7/iHbYVXDOUiq7FL5CtYOFGm8AuZZR1i3LXkooMDc+p/ j3ROCMuQXlMKuyhWZgBQkNcqc6nkkQtwSU11Q8UuS5tvQ3S8tGPXraZmy98p5jk2TVEY6bu WcVF7tCZgAODOedeNcs2w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:pH4y4pzaEDI=:luKev7ru86wU7xuuoTml8h ms+tvglhLx5JKwxGbfdspZMM6k2U1Sb9LnHWg8zjNm6SGTd+FJoESOmNJvby1It9RN5SGxvfO YMZ8aW0KMLiVk6vespjpUmMPW5cIcTsBrHxACkMGPiMxmRHvNZWL1Co8Do0EQNbqzUihm+cXi 8lrq8lmgONxqZge/+bZZbSj2VhGcL22EphHwyM4fOsMhQAd6kCT/rrGmTGrazIsAarRZ84AbG QW40OYd1Vxw7uC4fjENb8kouXfcHkS4C+7dDoMgBnYJqLQ6siEPv+1d35Kvb7mbWfq45csAiM thTsZIVftrqftIUEihD5+Qmqba6sNddJLqN4dff/DGYpnHHWmbqRGNKMbLrHyd5wIpKTnAzHV MdlffvdyVa359+tFZWxPyec1loj6HirH1wKKognQdKNXLgSTqiNKktTvbC+N3u/yG6zM3MsVF FwY+lBq6avRNpvFVSkmB7i5YRGZKwaHvmK/juAfeaBCVSSCVymYQnqWRiRt4fZs2YwAxURUz/ dzXgJU1aQnVV+SiLr4va9bkng2z55I7XjMeWgpYBqagJJS0cWhfa/QLiQkfaf4i5RgXrc+8xa 7Y5et+KjjISoCtXnSj1ox55FsTAoH26RhdIls3dHpmVPWVpZztrgWxcVDieQoGny271E/UBFP JI2M0t5gk7xEoTnOi2O4H2gJ1D1eLSg45JKOUs8binvT0hJS+NGIcKQysVnlT0n3cSU4axMND m6VkaI1wHI/U+pBbyeUAjQ9Kz2A0ttTIF+mFmEHUB/MgfDhsefIHHXGGmhBZWQd8wdIRJjHTD U78yqnOp7HivevMnwt6ffLfLez5omcb0Z4KZFBucmcKa3C3CRQFeNXN/6w6YCHPnoCYuZwiE6 Bzj2gqWXhMV4M7jBD9AGsQeI0gWFxfNLcDGDI/zrKehuyx+VRsWCPIJKD5gg7KA7daXjFO2Ab j/G/kZIPz/wStcjJfEIPxW76iNCzdCNpXg0W09XYcA3aCKANlqYoNVAsOFG0VFMNEbhKF9kZn cvZTH/XRMu4jZN+aLMpUKv5ujsn6/hEKiNnjoAh/H+m2fxIfozEMoZnpB8Yn4UgnBQO1BqJqe K8p85XThnp/J9pV7HDo2pcUcltwV5MtLQqbWP2aHhsUMt4YKWX3+NIp22txXeo02kC92ugQBn pVOU07OCGtHipMQXdlIvkYR8W40f58ceEOYvLnm7ynHfR9VuT8ULOLiBqBVehfsNxJrfnh/N7 AmSdsdmkHrXV1lIkO Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.11; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/13 12:32:34 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: 40549@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-guix@gnu.org, zimoun X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Tom Zander via Bug reports for GNU Guix writes: >> > You asked for an example; see `git commit -S`. From the manpage: >> > -S[], --gpg-sign[=3D] >>=20 >> Thank you for the example. Let me show you that it raises an issue >> too because it is not so "simple". :-) > > Easier example then: from the 'ls(1)' manpage: > -I, --ignore=3DPATTERN > > seems git is trying to be smart. Yes =E2=80=94 and in that it often annoys me. Anytime I use -S I worry about the interpretation of arguments, because it already bit me a few times. Git is a counter-example: It=E2=80=99s commandline is as unintuitive as it = can get without being an unfinished prototype. And there really isn=E2=80=99t as much consistency in tools as you state. Many tools interpret --foo bar as ((foo bar)), while others only accept --foo=3Dbar as ((foo bar)) and treat --foo bar as ((foo #t) bar). Some tools only accept options before positional arguments, while others allow you to intersperse both. Some tools use named arguments without dash (dd). GNU tools often differ from BSD tools by allowing options after positional arguments and treating --foo bar as (foo bar). And please don=E2=80=99t do radical changes on guix package. That would bre= ak the workflow of every slightly longer term guix user. Best wishes, Arne --=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein ohne es zu merken