From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 09 03:35:59 2019 Received: (at 36855) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2019 07:35:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42015 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvzRP-00049o-Fs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 03:35:59 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181]:46085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvzRN-00049Z-EH for 36855@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 03:35:58 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id w3so8223709pgt.13 for <36855@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:35:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=GAkcq5nvQKoyrJqiIa0uGHbHHGzsAsjJxwo4yJzvrGE=; b=SzxxQRwDXScjN7SNo4IzekHvNRgZeJG2x5EDhVWDOlmdF1e2HV+WIbfRAt7KlWx0EI W5NcoEBgbRZHTAMXL2OpVbGmIcwUK9PlWzNOGWP9eoe17L8YIBr/D25SgHg9nVTN/Yms mkRtsC5ye83MQs/DueUsuuCGoANwdf2X8xAmN7FNbY/mWcSQgepTiYmRMB7k/+2FOiPD +YvPRGWk5eja1VPYtYHyLN0V9KwXWKUBHuYg9cPPkYKINSfmS53MQ+KG8wPG3NFab3LN 9Ht+TYppeAMXOZIpw+KB2Oftlu0qRR78AkkQKM8+ETBXq078YQEjC+8aSAdtxfudqmIU bawg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=GAkcq5nvQKoyrJqiIa0uGHbHHGzsAsjJxwo4yJzvrGE=; b=BgDeXX7Eb9EsxhjZp0EgAa+ph5kVZ5nvHugIXqqmjr858knnhbz1iusxqkqdeungji Dk4NlNPJxl1LikZMpRB4dvvdeSIU8vrIablBxjFBv/XiYoVWgS7laOxkOboIU+syEyDM GlCZv7zWZCtwgwEHUC/9cFJn6dNvrz7y6ldq0qtULCtpW/DYtOHzTNhEK1Z7eWXBrxtc ylPbI7BJsgSN0uOPx0jDBvUrufBVhAdHXaNisEFsHUnb6kX7mCcDJdpmutAOjxxqv0yc 3xZBS6KsOPqwj+/WY9oT0bDWhx6pjU+10BTQ+h7JphT3jwUbXFRxuXclfRTQ9Kzs8xMu fC8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWlDgQeSOoRCMtb1mMcmGOtGDHY7k4yKmB6p6nKv80qwvxganvF dCRjRfwcSH4UdSoNtawBhhqlV9NBr/w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyhmXFVGZcA4tBHcq0ZmnMoaHGIrvO3mmfqfrUsa+JkGKy65bnBfzaojEXXVZcuK2XpY5lr/g== X-Received: by 2002:a65:5a86:: with SMTP id c6mr15152215pgt.95.1565336150967; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from garuda ([2601:601:9d80:25b2:d90b:2eef:568b:a6f1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h9sm108327616pgk.10.2019.08.09.00.35.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:35:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Marusich To: Robert Vollmert Subject: Re: bug#36855: guix system switch-generation doesn't References: <7BE8190F-A8E9-454E-8F37-FBFE42FBDE10@vllmrt.net> <87zhkkojfv.fsf@dustycloud.org> <877e7on3zd.fsf@sdf.lonestar.org> <87h86ry5j5.fsf@gmail.com> <51A8B412-1AE3-4464-8146-DE8B19B7C4DF@vllmrt.net> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:35:44 -0700 In-Reply-To: <51A8B412-1AE3-4464-8146-DE8B19B7C4DF@vllmrt.net> (Robert Vollmert's message of "Thu, 8 Aug 2019 19:03:38 +0200") Message-ID: <87o90yvlin.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 36855 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, "Jakob L. Kreuze" , 36855@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, Robert Vollmert writes: > On 8. Aug 2019, at 18:40, Chris Marusich wrote: >> zerodaysfordays@sdf.lonestar.org (Jakob L. Kreuze) writes: >>=20 >>> 'switch-to-system-generation' doesn't call out to >>> 'upgrade-shepherd-services'. I'm not sure if this was an intentional >>> decision or not >>=20 >> It is intentional, but only because there is currently no way to call >> upgrade-shepherd-services when switching system generations. > > How does shepherd work on a non-guix system? Can=E2=80=99t be it be confi= gured > like other daemons to read its configuration from a file, e.g. from > > /run/current-system/etc/shepherd.conf > > and be told via signal to reload its configuration from disk? Maybe! In the email thread I linked, Ludo talked about storing a description of the Shepherd services in the system generation for future reference. Maybe we could store it in a place like this, and maybe Shepherd already has mechanisms for reloading configurations like this. I don't intend to work on this because I need to focus on other things right now, but I would be happy if someone took up this work! > (I feel a bit cheated right now. This behaviour makes Guix System entirely > unsuitable for server use. It shouldn=E2=80=99t be advertised as supporti= ng > transactional upgrades and rollbacks if those require a reboot.) I agree that Guix should update as many Shepherd services as it can when switching generations. However, I don't think it's inaccurate to say that Guix supports transactional upgrades and rollbacks. When you invoke "guix system switch-generation", the system profile symlink is flipped atomically, so you get an atomic update from one version of the system to another. Software running in the system never sees an inconsistent view of the system. Contrast this with nearly any other mutable GNU/Linux system, in which files are more or less sprayed into the existing file system with no guarantee of consistency or atomicity. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAl1NIlAACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp2VIw//US1/6CiS04hRQjoDqQ84bx59a3iownqkYyiAL/94IUUetS4ZNSg5nQ4A Pir0iD/3vJEsXLnBzKwH7AcC8mRYI3AUviv+AT7LYKuM95UVOeqp1iuUKlzCQRXl szOwI19vOJKFHrpjPEcwev1/c5Y2hYMW2rRTuajfvkeS2QNiLzNODMMjkksDcHVT tezSf72AtLL74+qXsmDidJpLYXbJ60EK4hFEztJcJLRekN5B0tT06W9qpsRCtNoB O8j8BHLDFvQXj9+2fj1TXGLYnUu0UbmgxoAaykCVIB9RxcWCfoq/ZHxT2SxUiHBG 9HxBKaRnCdXHcGdHiH9vuVjg7vFTBkYHBTFs9Z8rhEzWhoCcXVozbGEY33OUPcdn 0aNqWsQX4er5ewWiDK6Rkw1XrCpl/Jxe+BKLjTIO/UuWAHhpF87Hcqznddzjuerp W6zNXmo0HnweObv/VjWOyf3u+9kwMBRjxXO1FOSZD5D7DAAZewfKE/9CVSbrsjn5 yubVoCB/Yb4ZPJ33w3oXQVHnxL4yrbv3DMdQYNNLkdfQc9n6m3d8nnpsaHTkEmaY 9UdLCpeKN75QVyh66comhZbmkNQ6I7vGypqTDVo12/09aF7YLCDC9AiKYvZ4TYD9 dq7znOudwA72iyxRSM+JRPDmvXXNIr9ypSHjBrPjX6vY8LX882M= =fHHl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--