From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 29 17:02:14 2018 Received: (at 22629) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Aug 2018 21:02:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37515 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fv7bS-00056X-H7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:02:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fv7bQ-00056L-Qb for 22629@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:02:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fv7bK-0004AD-IM for 22629@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:02:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58635) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fv7bK-0004A6-EV; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:02:06 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=44262 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fv7bK-0006j0-6j; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:02:06 -0400 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Mark H Weaver Subject: Re: bug#22629: Channels not needed for a stable branch References: <87vb5vsffd.fsf@gnu.org> <87pny2iks2.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekagtg9.fsf@netris.org> <87zhx5msfl.fsf@pompo.co> <87lg8pccys.fsf_-_@netris.org> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 12 Fructidor an 226 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:02:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87lg8pccys.fsf_-_@netris.org> (Mark H. Weaver's message of "Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:14:03 -0400") Message-ID: <87mut47upf.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22629 Cc: Konrad Hinsen , Alex Sassmannshausen , 22629@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Hello Guix, Mark H Weaver skribis: > Both of you seem to have reached the conclusion that third-party > channels are a prerequisite for having a 'stable' branch. I disagree. Same here. We could already be doing that (I=E2=80=99m skeptical about the feasibility, maintainability, and relevance of a =E2=80=9Cstable=E2=80=9D b= ranch in the sense of Debian stable, but that=E2=80=99s another story.) > I agree with both of you that a 'stable' branch of Guix would be > tremendously useful. I've often wanted it myself, and I still do. > > My point is that I want to keep our APIs internal and unfrozen for the > same reason that Linux, the kernel project, does. Linux refuses to > support out-of-tree drivers and modules, and thereby retains its freedom > to change their internal APIs. Often they change how things work > internally and this entails doing massive find-replace on every driver > in the tree. This has been a crucially important factor in their > long-term success. I had this example in mind too: the kernel technically supports out-of-tree modules, but kernel developers have always resisted pressure to freeze APIs. Because this policy has been stated upfront very clearly and has remained unchanged, out-of-tree module developers know that that the compatibility burden is on them. There=E2=80=99s flexibility, along with a strong incentive to get things in the mainline kernel. This is the outcome I=E2=80=99d like to achieve: give users some welcome flexibility, but make it clear that it=E2=80=99s best-effort. Ludo=E2=80=99.